Primerica Life Insurance: An Independent Broker’s Evaluation

As stated on their corporate website: "Primerica's roots date back to 1977 when the company embarked on a revolutionary crusade to transform the life insurance industry. Primerica's "Buy Term and Invest the Difference" philosophy encourages middle-income families to purchase affordable term life insurance so they can have more money to invest in their family's future." On the surface, this philosophy makes some sense, but if you dig a little deeper, there are five major pitfalls when dealing with a Primerica advisor.

  1. Primerica employs a "one size fits all" philosophy. In many instances, term insurance may be the best solution, but what about when insurance protection is needed for the insured's lifetime? Examples of this include a child with a permanent disability, insurance needed to offset taxes on an investment property, or the transfer of a family business. Life insurance is not simply a commodity; if it was, there would be no need for a life insurance advisor. Careful analysis must be given to both the type and amount of coverage needed.
  2. Primerica's term insurance policies are very expensive. At the time this article was written, a 50-year-old male non-smoker could get $200,000 of Term 10 coverage for $38.79 per month with Unity Life; the same coverage would cost $65.84 per month with Primerica. One reason for this is that Primerica uses a multi-level marketing distribution model – the independent brokerage model employed by other insurance companies has far fewer layers, which translates into a much more competitive cost structure. Primerica has improved it’s pricing in certain age brackets and is one of the few companies to offer 25 and 30 year Term policies.
  3. Primerica's term policies are non-convertible, and since they do not offer a permanent life insurance policy in their product lineup, the insured would have to look elsewhere should a permanent policy be needed down the road. Furthermore, should the insured's health change, he/she would probably be out of luck.
  4. Primerica is the only insurance company that encourages its advisors to work part-time. I wouldn't want a part-time accountant preparing my tax return and I wouldn't want a part-time lawyer preparing my will. The financial service industry is in a constant state of change – in order for an advisor to provide optimal customer service, they need to stay abreast of industry changes – meaning a full-time commitment to the business.
  5. Primerica employs a captive sales force; their agents can only sell Primerica life insurance products. This places their agents in a compromising position – they are not able to shop the marketplace in order to provide their clients with the best possible value. In the 1990's many insurance companies started to shift away from captive agencies and created Managing General Agencies (MGAs) as a method of distribution their products.  MGAs act as the middle man between the broker and the insurance company. Some MGAs only work with a few carriers and thus want their brokers to do the same.  There it's important to work with a broker who has access to a full line of insurance companies and is not just one or two.

Other discussions about Primerica

Comments have been closed on this entry as the discussion is mainly circular at this point.

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567 Comments

  1. [...] one gives the low down on which insurance company is the best for you, and the second one tells you why not buy a Primerica policy. Lorne S. Marr Insurance Services Limited 2900 John Street Suite 302   Markham, Ontario [...]

  2. Melissa Doner 05/03/2008 at 9:44 pm

    As I am writing, your website is not providing consumers with the correct information. Most insurance companies only sell their own insurance policy. Except if you deal with a broker who sells multiple company policies. Perhaps you either is belonging to or promoting consumers to deal with broker.

    Besides since part time is open for life insurance industry, therefore RBC, Manulife, etc are capturing part time insurance agents as well. It is a falsify statement that Primerica encourages part timer. I guess you comment 5 reason why not deal with Primerica is because Primerica is the only company who doesn't deal with brokers. Not sure if this is your case?!

    Anyway, websites could be created by anyone with whatever comments they have. Therefore I am certain that you will post mine too. Have a great day!

  3. LSM Insurance 05/06/2008 at 3:21 pm

    Thank you for your comment.

    We do strongly believe the consumer is best served by full time independent brokers commited to professional development. The business is constantly changing and advisors must strive to reach the same level of professionalism as lawyers, accounts, doctors and other skilled professionals

    You are incorrect in saying Primerica is the only company who does not deal with brokers. State Farm, Co-operators and London Life also employ captive agents.

  4. S. Murphy 05/20/2008 at 11:39 am

    Primerica policies are actually convertable (T-100) up until age 70 and renewable up to age 80. It is true that a lot of people start part time but the company is run by full time people, which is a requirement to take full promotion. As I'm sure you are aware that comliance is a huge issue and Primerica is scrutinized heavily because of misleading information such as in this article. In spite of this it is still a growing and thriving company. Have a great day.

  5. LSM Insurance 05/20/2008 at 2:47 pm

    Thanks for the email. Primerica does not show up as offering convertible policies on Life Guide or Compulife. The comparison software tools used by brokers. They also do not offer a Term 100 policy i.e level rates to age 100. If you can show me a company document to the contrary I will happily update my article.

    The article is not misleading - Primerica has improved it's pricing on many of their Term policies but the company still has significant flaws in it's product lineup.

  6. Angela 06/22/2008 at 2:28 pm

    Hi, I have an Primerica advisor coming to my house this week and I would like to know some info on this company. Does anyone have positive or negative feed back for me? Thank you,
    Angela

  7. LSM Insurance 06/22/2008 at 6:10 pm

    Hi Angela,

    Thanks for the note. The above article highlights the primary pitfalls of dealing with a Primerica advisor.

    In my opinion the biggest obstacle is Primerica employs a captive salesforce - so you will likely be paying a significantly higher premium than you would for comparible coverage through an independent broker who works with multiple insurance carriers.

    Primerica is competitive on some Term policies at certain age brackets. But this is tempered by the fact their Term policies are not convertible.

    If you have additional questions or would like a comparitive quote please let me know.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  8. Maurice 07/03/2008 at 5:01 pm

    Hey,
    My Girlfriend has been looking for a career upgrade recently and has sent out a whole lot of resumes. She has been called back by Primerica for an interview. I'm not exactly sure what to tell her. I've heard extremely negotive and some positive things about the company. It seems that they employ very low level workers and work on almost an amway style pyrmamid scheme. Half of your work is finding customers, and the other half is recruiting new agents. I was browsing the website for the company, and they do not have a much information on the products and services they offer, and very little on what the sales agents actually do. No shortage of buzz words vague financial quotes. From what I have picked up through a few forum searches is that they charge a couple hundred dollars for what I would assume is training (IBA's Independant business application), prospects are gathered in a room to watch a video and questions are answered very vaguely. It smells a little fishy to me, and the location is a small unmarked building that is prety out of the way. I almost want to withhold the information I gathered either to test her scam radar but also out of curiousity.

  9. LSM Insurance 07/03/2008 at 9:02 pm

    Hi Maurice,

    Thanks for the email. The financial services industry is a fantastic opportunity for the right person in the right enviroment.

    I've been in the business 15 years and have met a ton of terrific people and visited a lot of unique locations at different conventions. The business can also be very lucrative and of course helping people better meet their financial goals is a reward in itself. Your girlfriend should try and connect with an experienced advisor who can teach her how to best prospect for new clients. Just contacting friends and family won't cut it unless she is very popular.

    Regarding Primerica - they have received a lot of negative press but much of the criticism is misplaced. The two major flaws with Primerica for a new advisor (1) is they employ a captive sales force so she will not necessarily be able to choose the best product for her clients and (2) Primerica does not offer any Permanent products - it is crucial your girlfriend carries a full arsenal of insurance solutions when she analyses her prospective clients insurance and financial needs.

    I hope this helps. If she has more questions she can always email directly at lorne@lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  10. Sarah 07/06/2008 at 5:36 pm

    We found a great deal on life insurance through an agent with Accuquote. When comparing the same coverage with Primarica, we found Primerica to be much more expensive. As the matter of fact, we had several other possibilites through Accuquote that cost less. When our Primerica respresentative met with us, he assured us that Primerica had the best rates and that we could not find any better. After we shared the Accuquote information with him, he couldn't believe it. I got the feeling that in their training, they are told that they have the best rates, but most never check it out for themselves.

  11. LSM Insurance 07/06/2008 at 6:52 pm

    Hi Sarah,

    Thanks for sharing your buying experience.

    Primerica has improved it's pricing on many of their plans. But they employ a captive salesforce and do not have access to outside insurance carriers. Primerica agents also do not have any permanent plans in their product stable. As for the training I'm sure Primerica has some good and bad managers but they have a skewed product bias.

    Your best bet is to work with a broker from a reputable insurance brokerage like Accuquote in the United States or LSM Insurance in Canada.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  12. Brett 07/11/2008 at 12:28 pm

    Your last post sums it up....

    "Your best bet is to work with a broker from a reputable insurance brokerage like Accuquote in the United States or LSM Insurance in Canada"

    Basically, your knocking this company down in order to boost yourself up at LSM Insurance. Primerica does much more than just "term" insurance that is apparently more expensive. It's helping many individuals live their dreams of getting out of a cycle of debt and poverty.

    People, realize he is just trying to promote the company here...be fair Lorne...

    And NO...I don't work for Primerica...

  13. LSM Insurance 07/11/2008 at 12:29 pm

    Hello Brett,

    We're suggesting that people use an independent broker, not in particular our services. Anyone can look around my site here, read our articles and special reports and decide for him or herself, if we have the expertise they need. If not they can use another independent broker who better fits their needs.

    That's a lot better shake than dealing with a captive agent who only offers a limited product portfolio.

    All the best!

  14. Fenton 07/16/2008 at 12:26 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    I don't know much about life insurance but I have googled Primerica and there seems to be a lot of negative comments circulating on the net about the company. I was just wondering if you could offer my gf some understandable (as in 'simple') advice on choosing the right life-insurance company to be with. She's already with Primerica, and hopefully she can get out of the contract somehow.

    Her name is M... Please open your email by telling her that I, Fenton, her bf, asked you to kindly contact her and give her some honest info and options.

    Bottom line is: she'll want your business if you can offer her something better than Primerica.

    Thanks Lorne,

    Fenton

  15. LSM Insurance 07/16/2008 at 1:52 pm

    Hi Fenton,

    Thanks for your note.

    I will contact your girlfriend and see if I can help.

    Please keep in mind you have to be very careful when switching a life insurance contract. The current contract may meet her existing needs.

    The attached article hightlights some of the potential pitfalls. link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  16. Beckie 07/27/2008 at 8:13 pm

    No one has mentioned one major factor. When you are insuring your income replacement, you should look for Companies that have an excellent track record for actually paying out a death claim. Hum? Do you remember the disasters of 911 or New Orleans? Who was one of the top Companies who paid out immediately while the others Companies were trying to establish if this was an act of war? You got it-Primerica. So, instead of nitpicking on who is cheaper, I would rather be focusing on who is actually going to pay in the end. After all, you certainly won't know when you're gone, and your loved ones will be the ones suffering. And someone better do a little research on Primerica Life Insurance because you certainly don't know that the policies are convertable, they can be in place until age 95 and are very competive in their pricing. At least the agents from Primerica know their products. Just ask another agent from another Company try and explain their products. Duh?

  17. LSM Insurance 07/27/2008 at 8:55 pm

    Hi Beckie,

    I agree when taking out any life insurance policy - Term or Permanent you want to make sure that you are dealing with a reputable company. I don't think anyone has questioned Primerica's claims paying track record. By the same token I haven't seen any stats or supporting material showing their cliams paying record is any better than any other top tier insurance company.

    Primerica only offers Term policy so the policies would have nothing to be converted to. The fact that most of their policies are renewable to age 95 is a nice feature but this is tempered by the fact that cost increases dramatically at the end of the policy Term. Case and point a 40 year old male non smoker can take out $250,000 30 year term coverage for $60.56 a month but the cost goes up to $3,724.48 a month by the time he is 90.

    As for the point that Primerica agents are somehow more knowledgable than brokers who deal with other insurance carriers. This is simply not factual and doesn't warrant a response.

    Regards ... Lorne

  18. Ian 07/31/2008 at 9:27 am

    I'm considering a Million dollars Term 10 policy with Primerica. I've seen a lot of your advertisements. What would the cost be for a 47 male non smoker in good health. Thanks

  19. LSM Insurance 07/31/2008 at 9:35 am

    Hi Ian,

    Thanks for visiting our website. Please note LSM Insurance is not affilated with Primerica. Our brokers are all independent whereas Primerica employs its own in-house captive sales force.

    Below are premiums for $1,000,000 Term coverage standard rates for an age nearest 47 male non smoker as per Compulife -they compare insurance premiums among life insurance carriers in Canada.

    Canada Life - $128.70 a month
    RBC Insurance - $129.06 a month
    Manulife $132.51 a month
    Primerica $168.63 a month

    Please let me know if you need any additional details. Regards ... Lorne

  20. mark 08/04/2008 at 11:13 pm

    I wonder if primerica is down talking your company. I don't understand the whole deal with other companies down talking primerica. I"ve been researching for about a month and I have yet come in contact with a primerica agent down talking these companies like they are doing them.
    Just wanted to know

  21. LSM Insurance 08/05/2008 at 7:49 am

    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for your note. As stated above and in the article Primerica has improved it's pricing on many of their plans. But there are still some major flaws in their product lineup and as illustrated two posts up they are still uncompetitive on ceratin Term plans.

    Buying life insurance is a big decision and it's important that the consumer has all the necessary information to make that decision.

    Have a great day! Lorne

  22. Tamara 08/09/2008 at 5:59 pm

    I am thrilled that people are talking about life insurance so much. Risk management is the basis for any solid financial plan. If Primerica gets people talking, that is fantastic, because more people should know about the miracle that life insurance is to a family suffering a terrible loss.

    The financial planning needs analysis tool that Primerica offers, is simple to understand and therefore easy for families to determine how much life insurance they actually require.
    But, I would still caution anyone to make other investigations before buying a Primerica policy.

    When you compare the cost for term with Primerica to other - possibly better - companies such as Canada Life and/or ManuLife (for example), Primercia falls short. In most cases, a family can obtain both life and critical illness coverage for the same premium as the life-only Primerica plan.

    Since the odds of a family member suffering a critical illness in 10 years is far greater than a death, having the life & critical illness coverage makes much more sense for a family's protection. A critical illness or disability can cause immense damage to a family's financial survival. Sadly, the cost for a health problem or disability is often more than the final expenses involved with a death.

    With respect, I would suggest that Primerica advisors also talk about those risks and if necessary, partner with an independent or captive broker when the clients require accident/ injury/ sickness protection to provide family income in times of need.

    I have seen a number of instances when Primerica policies were sold as if the life policy had health protection when in fact it was the terminal illness benefit. Some contracts also call this the compassionate benefit program. There is a great deal of confusion around this non-contractual benefit and I always worry about the consumer when it comes time to claim and the policy does not actually do what they thought it did. I don't believe it was mis-sold or that the agent intentionally mis-represented, I think it was honest confusion and not an attempt to deceive. However innocent the intent, it is the consumer who is hurt in the end.

    Knowledge is power and consumers should talk with a few people before choosing an advisor.

  23. James 08/13/2008 at 9:24 am

    I have been in the financial services industry for 7 years and am a CFP. I can say with confidence, that Primerica is terrible and the article above is bang on.

    The average Primerica agent's career is 11 days. That is a fact. They work multiple jobs as it is a pyramid system. Everyone who purchases a Primerica policy will be recruited. Sorry, it's not because they think you have potential as an agent. It's so they can make money off you selling your friends and family. This is why most people already know the agent.

    They only sell term, and the term is EXPENSIVE! If you've been convinced that term is the way to go, go to any other insurance company and you'll get better rates. Take a look at what happens to your coverage and your premiums later in life with Primerica.

    To suggest that term is the only type of insurance needed is short sighted and incorrect. What about estate planning? Of course with Primerica you buy term and 'invest the rest'. Well, what is the rest? And of course why would you need insurance later in life when you'll be so rich due to your Primerica agent's advice! Yikes.

    Term is fundamentally converatble, so never buy term that isn't. I haev many wealthy clients that purchase whole life insurance for estate planning purposes.

    Primerica is like a clothing store that tell you pants are all you need. How silly does that sound?

    Primerica agents are also trained to try and book a meeting with the client and their current insurance advisor. Most aren't capable of conducting these meeting so they bring in their manager (top of the pyramid guys). They often bring tape recorders and put it on the desk, in an attempt to intimidate the other advisor...I kid you not! It's a total joke. Some people in my office for fun have actually gone to these meeting and brought their own tape recorder.

    I have seen more people in financial ruin after a stint with Primerica then any other company. I know of many ex-Primerica agents who comment to how 'shady' their practices and policies are.

    Saying all this, unless it's a top of the pyramid type player, the agent you meet isn't being malicious. They just don't know any better.

    All the best to everyone....but stay away from Primerica.

  24. LSM Insurance 08/13/2008 at 12:04 pm

    James,

    As you can note from the title of my article I agree Primerica product portfolio has many flaws but I find your comments one sided.

    I can't speak about Primerica retention rate and sales tactics I have nothing to refute or support this information. I do agree the industry is not well served by part time advisors.

    Your statement that all other life insurance companies have less expensive Term policies than Primerica is "false"

    I agree Primerica is not well positioned on many of their Term policies. Case and point for a 42 year old female non smoker applying for $250,000 Term 10 coverage Primerica is ranked #24 in Canada out of 26 companies.

    However, Primerica has improved its pricing on their 25 and 30 year Term plans. They are ranked #1 on $250,000 of Term 30 coverage for 40 year old male non smoker. One big caveat (which you mentioned) with this plan and all Primerica Term plans is they are non convertible.

    This is a huge pitfall for someone who decides they want permanent coverage but has had a change in health or lifestyle.

    Thanks again for your comments! Lorne

  25. James 08/13/2008 at 1:13 pm

    In my opinion, there is nothing wrong going with an advisor who is not a broker. That isn't the main concerns with Primerica in my professional opinion. Brokers, technically can 'shop' the market for a client. But the reality is that they put the majority of their business through one or two insurers, because they are paid higher bonus levels by doing so. A broker is usually just a 'broker' in title. I suspect Lorne may disagree and that is ok.

    However, in terms of this article, perhaps there are some scenarios where Primerica's prices are lower the others (very few though), but it's not comparing apples to apples without a built in conversion option.

    From the mutual find side, at least in Canada, the options for investing with Primerica are also very limited.

    All in all, if you need insurance or financial planning advise, get a second opinion from any major player in the industry. You'll be better off.

    Finally, in Canada, there is an ethical body that insurance advisors are a part of. It governs the best practices of the industry to help protect the clients. Primerica agents choose not to be members.

  26. LSM Insurance 08/13/2008 at 2:44 pm

    Hi James,

    Thanks for your comment. You have a valid point that on the products where Primerica is competitive - the policies not being convertible is a significant issue.

    As for most brokers only using one or two carriers to maximize their compensation. I can't speak for other brokers but the brokers at LSM Insurance have access to and use 12 different insurance carriers and the compensation is comparable with each company. We do not provide higher bonuses for placing business with a paticular insurance company.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  27. i galvan 08/15/2008 at 1:03 pm

    All I got to say is that most of the stuff in this article false. Yes associates start part time but later go full time if they want. We are compared to pyramids but because we bring people in to help us take care of the consumer. We are supported by full time masters in all aspects of the financial world. We are highly regulated by Federal and State law. We work for Citigroup the largest financial organization in the U.S. Primerica has affordable insurance rates compared to the rest of the Insurance Industry. When you use an older example of course the rates are higher. I challenge anybody that is interested to go to an opportunity meeting first and then decided if the company is what they are looking for. I have found that the full time accountant or banker in the past has just stole money from me while primerica has taught me more than a full time representative ever will. Never has a bank or financial office ever told me the full story and educated me on how the financial world works like Primerica. I have also been taught how the insurance industry has robbed the consumer and now I am apart of a company that shows the consumer how to defend themselfs. The more negative people write about Primerica the better I feel about the company. Check RIPOFF REPORT. The article corrected it's previous negative comments now commending and recommending the company. Smear tactics from people who know Primerica is taking care of the consumer.

  28. LSM Insurance 08/15/2008 at 2:48 pm

    Thanks for your comments. Regarding your assertion about part time agents - I stand by my contention that the consumer is not well served by a part time captive agent. I wouldn't want to use a part time doctor who was told he/she had to prescribe drugs from one paticular drug manufacture. The insurance industry is constantly changing and requires a full time commitment. I have not commented on Primerica's inner dealings or management structure.

    In terms of Primerica pricing - four posts up I give an example where Primerica is well positioned in the market - I also mention this in the article. However, there are also several examples where Primerica Term insurance pricing is very uncompetitive. This validates my point that prospective insurance purchasers are best served by a knowledgable full time insurance broker who offers unbiased advice and will shop the market for the best value.

    I also strongly disagree the insurance industry is out to ripoff the consumer. I grant you there are a few bad apples in the industry but I think the majority of brokers are out to work in the clients best interest.

    All the best! Lorne

  29. Kim 08/20/2008 at 4:07 am

    My husband and I just bought life insurance through Primerica as well as set up RRSP's and an emergency fund. I wish I had found this website yesterday, I may have not done so. My husband feels we made the right decision but I am really second guessing what we have done. We got life insurance for both of us and our 11 year old daughter.

    32 years - 250,000 for $33.49
    33 years - 250,00 for $26.69
    11 year old - 10,000 for $6.18

    for a total of $66.27 a month

    I would really like to know Lorne, what do you think?

  30. LSM Insurance 08/20/2008 at 7:41 am

    Hi Kim,

    Thanks for visiting our website,

    I would need to know the type of policy before I could comment on your premiums. i.e. if it's a Term 10, Term 20 or Term 30 policy.

    You should also keep in mind as noted a few posts above Primerica Term policies are not convertible to a Permanent policy.

    Please feel free to contact me at the numbers or email below if you would like one our brokers to meet with you and give a free second opinion or you can visit the link below for a free on-line quote.

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regards,

    Lorne S. Marr CFP MBA
    President
    LSM Insurance
    2900 John Street Suite 302
    Markham, Ontario L3R 5G3
    Tel: 905-248-4849 Cell: 647-388-3617
    Toll Free: 1-866-899-4849 Fax: 905-300-4848
    lorne@lsminsurance.ca http://www.lsminsurance.ca

  31. Samuel J. Smith 08/21/2008 at 10:40 am

    I've never had one single problem with Primerica Financial Services or any of their Agents! Not one!

  32. LSM Insurance 08/21/2008 at 11:17 am

    Hi Samuel,

    Thanks for your note. I'm glad you had a positive experience. If you are exploring new coverage or as your Term policy approaches renewal I would recommend comparing Primerica against other carriers in Canada. Regards ... Lorne

  33. wes 08/23/2008 at 2:45 am

    lorne,
    i'm wondering what happens to my cash value when i die. My primerica rep showed me that i loose it. I asked my state farm rep what happened and she couldn't show me anything she just started to talk about dividens? which if i understand them correctly they are just an over payment of premium, otherwise i would have to pay taxes on my dividens considering i have to pay them on my stocks? can you shed some light on what's going on. My primerica rep seems to have the policy to back up what he's saying and my state farm rep won't look at the policy? what's really going on here?
    Wes

  34. LSM Insurance 08/23/2008 at 8:57 am

    Hi Wes,

    Thanks for the questions. Here is the scoop - with a Whole Life policy you are paying a higher premium in the initial policy years so your premiums can remain level in the later policy years. Whereas a Term policy the premiums increase in cost as you get older.

    The guaranteed cash value of a Whole Life policy is a refund of the extra premium you contributed. You can use this guaranteed cash value to help offset future premiums or take the money out in the form of a policy loan. In either scenario the insurance company will charge you interest and the policy loan plus any interest is deducted from the policy face amount when you die. The interest rate varies from company to company.

    Participating Whole Life policies i.e. policies which particpate in the insurance companies profits pay a dividend on top of the guaranteed cash value. These dividends are not guaranteed and can buy additional insurance which increase your death benefit and the dividends are paid out tax free along with the policy face amount minus any policy loans on the insured's death.

    I hope this wasn't too technical.

    Good luck with things! Lorne

  35. Jewel 08/27/2008 at 10:45 am

    So, let me get this straight. If I have a Whole Life policy and I'm paying a higher premium and then I have an emergency down the road and I need some emergency funds, I need to borrow my own money back? What's with that? How much interest have I been paid on the funds I've already put in and how much is the insurance company going to charge me in loan interest? And when can I actually borrow those funds. Six months, a year, two years after premium payments start? Something seems a little off here.

    Wouldn't it be better to have a lower premium and invest or even just put in a savings account the difference? At least I can withdraw any money without borrowing my own money back.

    Doesn't seem right to me.

  36. LSM Insurance 08/27/2008 at 2:44 pm

    Hi Jewel,

    Thanks for your comment. I think you are missing the point of why the premiums on a Whole Life plan are level. As stated above with a Whole Life policy you are paying a higher premium in the initial policy years so your premiums can remain level in the later policy years. Whereas a Term policy the premiums increase in cost as you get older. The cash value is a return of this extra premium if you decide you need this money.

    As for when you can borrow the cash value in a Whole Life policy - you can borrow the funds immediately usually up to 90% of the cash value. The interest rates flucuate from company to company but are usually competitive.

    You're correct you could invest the extra money on a Term policy in a seperate account and the funds in this account would not have to be borrowed but on a term policy your cost would also increase dramitically as you age and maintaining the coverage beyond 65 may not be feasable.

    All the best! Lorne

  37. Rebecca 08/27/2008 at 2:58 pm

    I just wanted to comment on the fact that recently my 18 year old friend was recruited by Primerica. Of course I didn't know this until one of his managers (a very young sounding fellow) called my cell phone while I was at work offering me a job. Not just an interview, a job. Without any background information on me I was offered a job. I politely said "No thank you" as I already have a job and didn't want to waste any time with what seemed like a very sketchy company. At this time I did not have any information on the company or even the name.

  38. Rebecca 08/27/2008 at 3:05 pm

    I just wanted to comment on the fact that recently my 18 year old friend was recruited by Primerica. Of course I didn't know this until one of his managers (a very young sounding fellow) called my cell phone while I was at work offering me a job. Not just an interview, a job. Without any background information on me I was offered a job. I politely said "No thank you" as I already have a job and didn't want to waste any time with what seemed like a very sketchy company. At this time I did not have any information on the company or even the name.

    I asked my friend about the job and he gave me a very vague description, he really didn't seem to have a hold of what exactly the job was himself. "We go to peoples houses and we help them save lots of money" "How do you do that?" "I don't know, but I saw them save a family a million dollars last week" "But how do you do that?" "I don't know, but will your parents let me come over and look at their financial information so I can get $800?" I failed to mention that my friend is also a recent immigrant from Egypt and very gullible.

    Personally were I to be purchasing life insurance or any insurance I would prefer not to be buying it from a recent imigrant high school grad with no experience or post secondary education who can't even tell me what it is they're selling.

    These are all my first impression of the company I recently learned was "Primerica" (by the way, I'd never heard of it before either...) and I'd just like to show you an unbiased view of this company.

  39. Grasshopper 08/28/2008 at 2:05 am

    This commenter left four posts. He's a little bit rude, so you might want to skip his comments altogether. I have put them in a single post to keep our civilized discussion exactly that.

    Comment One

    Uggggg!!! Primerica has level term policies up to 35 years. After that, they can change that to a decreasing term to age 100. If anyone would bother studying their whole life policies and universal life policies, you can easily show that the insurance inside the policy is nothing more than a decreasing term insurance policy bundled with a savings account. The more the savings account grows, the less the company is on the hook for. If your permenant policy has $20,000 cash value and the death benefit is $100,000, the company only has to pay $80,000. That's right folks! So, by the age 95 or 100, while decreasing actual coverage, cash value policies END too!!! There is nothing "Permanent" about cash value policies. Smoke and mirrors. Only one company teaches this 100% of the time, Primerica. Therefore, hail the captive concept of Primerica.

    It's amazing that if you unbundle the policy and write a level term or decreasing term by itself without a cash value, the insured most of the time will be able to be covered for 3 to 5 times the coverage at half the cost. So, for that policy with a death benefit of $100,000, if the premium was say $100/mo., when replaced by a term product, the same client normally ends up with about $300,000 at $50/mo. At the end of the term, just kick it into Decreasing Term all the way out to age 100. Take the $50/mo. savings and invest it and you will end up with a lot more money at retirement. In fact, if you end up with $300,000, why would you need life insurance then? Cash value policies are smoke and mirrors.

    Primerica Term policies are not convertible to Term 100 coverage. Decreasing Term insurance and Term 100 are completely separate policies. Whole Life and Universal Life plans with Term 100 coverage do not have increasing cost of insurance as their underlying coverage. I agree you can buy more Term coverage initially in comparison to Permanent policy but the cost rises dramatically at the end of each Term.

    Comment Two

    Price is only an issue in the absence of quality. When the cash value agent approaches an unsuspecting victim, the likelihood of the victim receiving any information on term insurance is about 10-15%. Most will end up with an expensive whole life, universal life or a Variable Universal Life policy. Term won't even be talked or discussed. So, for those who are worried about the price of Primerica Term, 85-90% of the time price won't be an issue. Doing what is right 100% of the time is the issue. See, if this guy gives you a cheap term and askes for 10 referrals, the likelihood of your referrals you gave him getting a term policy is slim to none. That's right! See, cash value agents can't survive selling term insurance as a full-time career. They have to sell the expensive trash value policies. With Primerica, we recruit part-timers who have jobs that pay the bills. So, Primerica part-timers don't have to sell trash value policies. And, ever part-timer I know teaches that a client may convert to a decreasing term out to age 100 at the end of their level term. When agents go full-time in Primerica, they still don't have to worry about selling the wrong product, trash value, because they have 30 to 3,000 agents that they over-ride. Primeica agents never have to feel they need to sell something they don't own on their own lives, trash value policies.

    All of our clients are shown both Term and Permanent options from 12 different companies and they pick the plan which best suits their needs. Our brokers have no bias towards one particular product or one particular company.

    Comment Three

    What? Why do my comments need moderation? If the truth hurts, then tell the truth for a change. Look at #5 you stated: "5. Primerica employs a captive sales force; their agents can only sell Primerica life insurance products. This places their agents in a compromising position – they are not able to shop the marketplace in order to provide their clients with the best possible value."

    The compromising really is when you can't afford to sell a Term Policy because the Mortgage has to be paid or the Mercedez payment is late. Thank goodness Primerica agents don't have to compromise their integrity. The fact is, there is no such think as "permanent" life insurance. The cost of life insurance is base on age. So, if the premium stays the same, the risk of the life insurance company decreases. Thus, your clients are buying less insurance each year. Just like the example I wrote, If your death benefit is $100,000 and the cash value is $20,000 and the insured dies, the client only gets $100,000, not $120,000. Thus, the company was only on the risk for $80,000. As the cash value goes up, the coverage or risk of the company continues to go down. As for UL and option B, forget it. The price is higher and thus you are just buying more life insurance, extremely expensive term insurance.

    I moderate all comments to minimize the chance of derogatory or false information showing up on the site. Your comment about fixed premium Whole Life plans or Level cost Universal plans having a rising cost of insurance is incorrect. The cost of insurance on these plans is based on the insured initial age and does not increase as the insured gets older.

    Comment Four

    You wrote: "1. Primerica employs a "one size fits all" philosophy. In many instances, term insurance may be the best solution, but what about when insurance protection is needed for the insured's lifetime? Examples of this include a child with a permanent disability, insurance needed to offset taxes on an investment property, or the transfer of a family business. Life insurance is not simply a commodity; if it was, there would be no need for a life insurance adviser. Careful analysis must be given to both the type and amount of coverage needed."

    My response: If a child has a permanent disability and can get whole life, he could get term too. As far as off-setting taxes, term can do that too. By the way, what if the client's estate is over $2,000,000? How would you write the policy? Would you first set up an Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust and have the trust the beneficiary??? You better! Bet you didn't think a part-timer would know that? Don't believe the nonsense that part-timers don't know what they are doing in the insurance business. They have the same licenses the full-timers have and have to take the same continuing education that the full-timers have. An insurance agent isn't like a doctor, CPA or attorney. He's someone that sells insurance. That's it!

    The benefits of buying a Permanent policy on a child are twofold 1) the cost is level for life and 2) It protects against a change in insurability. The rates on a Term policy are not level so the comparison is not accurate.

    Conclusion

    I appreciate your comments but you obviously have a bias towards Primerica. The benefit if dealing with an independent broker is he/she is unbiased. The overall compensation on Term policy can actually be much greater than a Permanent policy. The reason for this - the insured will likely take out a new Term or Permanent policy at the time of the Term renewal and the insured's cost and consequently the commissions will be much higher at that point. Logic and mathematics dictate that a full time broker would have more knowledge and expertise than a part-time agent. I think the insurance business requires just as much skill, knowledge and dedication as any other profession and in my estimation that requires a full time commitment.

  40. wes 08/28/2008 at 8:17 pm

    I talked to my primerica agent and showed him this website. He laughed when you said that UVL doesn't have ART(annual renewable term- each yr the price of just insurance goes up.)I referred my agent to my father in law last week and he showed my my in-laws policy and he showed me that actually in the beginning yrs you are over paying it, but in the later yrs the savings portion is going to pay for the increase cost of insurance. Sure enough my fil (father in law) got a statement from his company that he would need to pay more on his insurance this month or the policy would lapse. It seems the money he saved in the early yrs wasn't sufficiant enough to pay for the later yrs. ALl the money he paid in extra is now gone. It seems to me that UVL insurance cost him way to much, he could have got more insurance for less with term. He said he was never shown term insurance.
    Help me understand. IS the proof in my fil policy the truth or is what you are saying the truth?

  41. LSM Insurance 08/28/2008 at 8:32 pm

    Hi Wes,

    Thanks for your question. Most Universal Life policies have multiple cost of insurance options (COI). The two most common are Level COI and Annual Renewable Term (ART) COI. Level COI often referred to as Term 100 cost of insurance will remain level until age 100. The initial cost is higher but is level for life. With ART COI the cost of insurance starts off low and increases each year.

    If your father-in-law has a Universal Life policy with ART COI and the cash value in the policy is insufficient to cover the increase in cost than it makes sense the insurance company is asking for more money. The policy may allow him to convert to level COI without a medical but it will based on his current age. I hope this helps.

    All the best! Lorne

  42. tsmart 08/29/2008 at 8:21 pm

    We have life insurance with PRIMERICA. I was only supposed to be $80.00 a month and never go up. BS.. We are now paying $104 a month. That sure is an increase when you are on a tight budget.

  43. LSM Insurance 08/30/2008 at 9:29 am

    This may be due to some type of inflation protection increase in the policy. The company increases your coverage and premiums to offset inflation. You should be able to decrease the coverage on your existing plan to lower the premiums. Primerica's toll free number is 1-800-387-7876

    You can also get a comparison from other companies on our instant quote calculator. link to lsminsurance.ca

    All the best! Lorne

  44. Jerov 09/02/2008 at 5:37 pm

    How much would $275,000 Term 10 be for a 42 male non smoker and do I need a medical. What other things should I look at other than just the cheapest plan? Thanks!

  45. LSM Insurance 09/02/2008 at 5:50 pm

    Hi Jerov,

    Thanks for the question. Assuming standard rates for a 42 year old male non smoker please see monthly premiums below or you can visit our website at link to lsminsurance.ca

    AIG is tops $27.79 a month
    RBC $28.40 a month
    Primerica $40.21 a month

    The are other variables to consider other than just price
    1. The financial stability of the company especially for face amounts higher than $200,000
    2. Is the plan convertible to a permanent plan
    3. The renewal rates at the end of the Term

    All the best ... Lorne

  46. Brett 09/03/2008 at 6:43 pm

    I am a primerica agent and a 10yr level term is 21.50 a month not what you quoted. Besides that is AIG best rate if you are super preferred.

  47. LSM Insurance 09/04/2008 at 7:24 pm

    Hi Brett,

    Thanks for the email. I double checked the rates on Compulife.

    The figures are accurate. AIGs super preferred rate is $22.32 a month. Regards ... Lorne

  48. Maria 09/12/2008 at 2:23 pm

    Hi. Two days ago at 6pm I was contacted by a Primerica agent or what they call RVP (Regional Vice President). I was asked if i was still looking for a sales job and I said that i was (i just recently graduated from University and am desperately seeking a job. But I realized that I never applied to this company but I figured it must have been from one of the job websites and they just found my resume online. But then the man who introduced himself as Rowland, said the company was about helping families manage their dept and a red flag went up. I have NO experience or knowledge about this type of job. But i decided to go anyway because well i am desperate.

    So the interview was scheduled for the next day at 6pm again a weird time for a interview. But i went and I found the building on finch ave west in north York. The office was on the fourth floor of this building which was not very nice or even safe looking really kinda scary and dirty. But i go and i enter the tiny room with scuff marks all over the walls and there are about 15 people sitting there waiting. Now the second flag went up some of them were extreamly young and one guy clearly just came from his highschool class because he was still wearing his uniform. But i sat down and in 45 minutes i was asked to come into this dingy room and sit with one of the RVP's. Firstly she was dressed horribly and her hair was undone and she did not look professional at all. The interview was not an interview at all but her describing her coming to Canada and how this job has been so great for her. She said that she was really interested in my sales background but then soon after she said that this was not a sales job (huh?). She asked me to stay on longer for an information session.

    So I did and three people one after the other came up to give a presentation. The first man was apparently a high school VP doing this Primerica job part time, and he described how families were all in debt and the company's goal was to help all of these people. It sounded nice. Then the woman who interviewed me was next. She didn't really talk about the company but herself and again how this company helped her. The third person was the man who called me, Rowland. He talked about the training and the compensation and the room to grow.

    In short I learned NOTHING they did not tell me how i would be trained and who would do it or where. They really didn't say how i would be compensated but said that for 3hrs work or 2hrs work i would get 500 bucks. Well heck thats more then most lawyers make to start.

    Then they asked for everyone to fill out a form to say how the presentation could have been better and to stay for a follow up interview/discussion with the person who interviewed me. I stood there with two other young people who had just finished university and I told them that I was surprised when that asked my if i was still looking for a sales job when they had originally called me. That is when both of my colleagues looked at me and one said that when they called her they asked her if she was still looking for a HR job and my other colleague said that they asked him if he was still looking for a PR job. Well I had had enough and when it was my turn to talk to the woman who interviewed me I told her that I was not interested and she was trying to sway me and tell me that the course i would have to take costs 2500$ but i would be getting it for free etc. I declined and she proceeded to ask me if i knew anyone else who would be interested and of course I replied that I knew no one.

    The idea is that those two people who are RVP make money on the amount of people i recruit and sell to. Which goes against their policy of being your own boss which was the whole theme of the information session. Please do not fall for this scam and please stay away from this company its not worth your time or money. Again I have NO experience in this field and they were willing to give me a job! No would you want to buy insurance from someone like me or a 19 year old kid?

  49. Bud Bremner 09/14/2008 at 10:08 am

    Hi Lorne,

    Bud here from Vancouver. My brother recently started with Primerica and after learning a bit more so have I. I've read this entire thread about their product knowledge and the presentation of their business opportunity by not-so-professional sounding people. This is indeed unfortunate but it does not describe myself nor the people I associate with.

    I do not fit into that apparent 'scam' model and neither do my brother or the fine Primerica folks I've met so far. Their office is a brand new street front office in a rapidly growing area in Port Coquitlam, BC and every aspect of their 2 home visits and the opportunity meeting I've been to have been first rate.

    Even before I decided to join, they showed me something on my loan document; a life insurance charge that upon questioning the Credit Union about and after a bit of squirming on their part; admitted was not truly required as I already had a 300K term policy where they could be added as a revocable beneficiary for the outstanding loan balance. I subsequently but diplomatically tore a strip out of them for their ‘oversite’ and ‘deception by omission’. At my insistence they are removing this charge AND crediting me for all overpayment costs because of it. This has saved me well over $1000.00 and simply because a Primerica agent took an interest in me. Thank God they did.

    I am in sales already in the Audio/Visual field and am undaunted by the reports of other reps with somewhat lower morals. I have been very pleased with my Primerica experience and for the opportunity to become involved, because I was looking for a career change and am grateful to my brother for thinking of me.

    I intend to bring a level of professionalism and care into this business to repeat the high level of care and interest that was offered to me.

    Sincerely,

    Bud Bremner,
    Delta, BC

  50. LSM Insurance 09/14/2008 at 12:17 pm

    Hi Bud,

    Thanks for your comments. It's an exciting time to get into the financial services sector I wish you well.

    There have been several comments on Primerica sales and recruiting practices made by others. I welcome all comments and this open forum. The article and my comments have been more focussed on the limitations of Primerica's product portfolio and my assertion that industry is best served by qualified unbiased full time independent brokers.

    It sounds like you've made a full time commitment to the business. All the best! Lorne

  51. Bud 09/14/2008 at 6:04 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    Thanks for the comments. Indeed some peoples experiences might well have been tainted by reps with less than credible business practices and their inability to expose a viable business opportunity without sounding like a used car salesman. I've seen it myself in years past and have not appreciated it.

    However, that's not me. As a former engineer and educator, I'm big on learning and this is where I will strive to be of utmost service to my clients. I do that now in my current A/V field, I'm well known for it and I will bring this ideal to Primerica. Perhaps if I can inspire other Primerica reps that have come before or even after me then that will be my contribution to this industry, and I will move to a full time commitment as the transition permits.

    Thanks! Bud

  52. LSM Insurance 09/14/2008 at 7:59 pm

    You're welcome Bud. Good luck with things! Lorne

  53. john 09/18/2008 at 10:53 pm

    Just curious if you could list other "pyramid schemes" that (in Canada at least) are registered with the provincial government? I would like to see that list....yes, I am an ETHICAL Primerica agent and have been for over 12 years, started part time and now full time. I have found more deception with other insurance companies and reps, (as with ANY business, banking, corporate , real estate, retail, etc), do you not realize that everything Primerica advocates (again, in Canada) is backed up by consumer advocates. Pay down your debt, make sure you have adequate life insurance and sorry, $50,000 policy doesn't cut it. Have you told people that a lot of permanant insurance policies over charge you to set up a savings account within the policy and then KEEP IT when you die? Main issue, is be informed ! Don't listen to propoganda by people mad at a company, has your bank shown you how to get OUT of debt or do they offer you MORE credit ? Etc etc....read the books, get informed...that is what I did and I would be no where else but Primerica!

  54. LSM Insurance 09/19/2008 at 8:26 am

    Hi John,

    Thanks for your post. Many commenters here have written about unethical sales and recruitment practices at Primerica. Many of those postings include first-hand experiences.

    Non-Participating Whole Life policies have higher premiums in the early years so the insured's premiums can be level in the later years. A portion of the extra premium goes into a guaranteed cash value which the policyowner can borrow (up to 90%) or the applicant can cash in the policy if the need arises.

    As stated above the main limitations I see with Primerica are:

    • An incomplete product line up
    • Uncompetive pricing on certain products
    • Term policies which are not convertible
    • Not allowing their agents to shop the market
    • Employing part time agents

    All the best! Lorne

  55. Bud 09/19/2008 at 9:43 am

    Lorne,

    Is it possible to believe that the alleged Primerica 'limitations' you speak of that may not serve the 'industry' as you've mentioned, might just be the very thing that actually DOES serve the market that Primerica helps?

    I'm sure you have a certain methodology to your business with a product mix that works for you. Is it possible that you need to maximize your personal gains with these expensive policies due to a limited number of people in your organization? Just a thought.

  56. LSM Insurance 09/19/2008 at 11:19 am

    Hi Bud,

    Thanks for the note - I appeciate your comments. Granted certain brokers focus on certain markets. However I think regardless of the market - low end, mid market or high end - the consumer deserves to be shown a full spectrum of products.

    I can't speak for other brokerages but all of our brokers present a full range of solutions from a variety of insurance carriers. We offer clients unbiased advice and help clients choose the solution that's best for them. Its been my experience if you do a good job for people the compensation will take care of itself. Regards ... Lorne

  57. Norah 09/25/2008 at 9:05 am

    Hi Norah,

    I have had a Primerica policy for several years. With all this insurance company bankruptcy talk I'm wondering what happens if they go bankrupt?

  58. LSM Insurance 09/25/2008 at 9:23 am

    Hi Norah,

    Thanks for the question. Primerica appears to be on solid footing. Another safety net for Primerica and other insurance companies in Canada is Assuris.

    Assuris was founded in 1990 and it protects Canadian policyholders if a member insurance company becomes insolvent. You can find out if your insurance company is a member company by visiting the website of Assuris http://www.assuris.ca. (Primerica Life Insurance Company of Canada is a member)

    • Life Insurance death benefits up to $200,000 or 85% of the promised Death Benefit,
    • Life Insurance cash values up to $60,000 or 85% of the Cash Value, whichever is higher.
    • Critical Illness benefits up to $60,000 or 85% of the promised benefits, whichever is higher
    • Disability Insurance benefits up to $2,000 per month or 85% of the promised Monthly Income benefit, whichever is higher.
    • Long Term Care benefits up to $2,000 per month or 85% of the promised Monthly Income benefit, whichever is higher

  59. Observer 09/26/2008 at 5:43 pm

    For all the Primerica people who all of a sudden got sensitive. Remember back in the day and today to some extent you guys have jumped on the so called "cash value" companies. Now that you are being blasted on the web it's a different story.

    As a former Primerica agent something to consider is the Primerica agents in many cases don't know what they don't know. When I was there I had no clue about the industry as a whole and different company products. They are a captive company and all they basically need to know is their products. Something to consider is they will blast a permanent product over coverage amount and cost, well what about comparing Term vs Term for cost and coverage amount? They don't see it both ways. Less money going out can free up more money to save, yet when it's their products they don't see it that way. They will give you that absence of value speech..

    So for all the Primerica agents who are on this board, do some research. Your goal is to recruit people and sell your products. That's it bottom line. Just be honest with yourself. If you are really out to help people you would be independent. Only having one product is sales pure and simple. You represent the company.

  60. Bud 09/26/2008 at 7:39 pm

    Observer, before I knew about Primerica, I had a term policy like we suggest. However that other provider had never once offered to assist me in streamlining my financial situation or offered me alternative career to what i'd been doing. Primerica did and I am grateful for it.

  61. LSM Insurance 09/27/2008 at 8:10 am

    In response to the above two comments. A well trained advisor captive or independent can offer significant value beyond just selling a paticular insurance product.

    However, all things being equal I think the consumer is better served by an advisor who has a wide variety of solutions at his/her disposal.

    Regards ... Lorne

  62. Observer 09/27/2008 at 1:21 pm

    I guess my issue was getting caught up in the crusade hype. Being fed the all cash value
    stuff is a rip off. Then I found out that with the same licenses I could sell other products if
    I so chose to only not with Primerica. Then I was informed about commissions and renewals. Then I was enlightened about the real concept of bypass the middle man.

    At one point I was asked about the Legal Plan offered by Primerica. I did a comparison between the one from Primerica and the one from PrePaid Legal. Well I noticed a few things. The trial hours were basied on the lower cost Prepai Legal Plan and the associate at Prepaid Legal were paid on renewals form the plan, but not the Primerica associate who also their sold the plan. I think (don't quote me) the RVP will earn renewals after I think 3 years. If the Prepaid assocaite sold the plan they earn renewals after a year. Also the Prepaid associate has ownership after 12 months of being with Prepaid Legal. What are the ownership qualification at Primerica? Bypass the middle man. Same thing with Long Term care sales, look at the renewals. Compare with commission structures outside of Primerica.

    So people can post alll the rah, rah, stuff and drink all the kool-aid of the company, but when i did leave all I got was a letter stating who owned the clients and reacruit I brought to the comapny. There a whole lot more on the business side, but being new to the industry many agents just don't know what they don't know. For every business venture people should look at going in and look at an exit plan. Just consider if you left Primerica for whatever reason what can you take with you? You do the recruiting, training and make the sales and in many cases pay for your own office. Who does that contract benefit?

    If you can live with the answer good luck in your business. Forget all the hype and look it as a business. In the end that's how Primerica sees it.

  63. LSM Insurance 09/27/2008 at 2:41 pm

    Thanks for your comment. In fairness to Primerica. All captive agencies share the same limitation to outgoing brokers. The insurance company owns your book of business. All the best! Lorne

  64. Observer 09/28/2008 at 4:43 am

    Today I was reading September Issue of Best Review. Something I noticed is with all the information on the net about Primeica and their products and business model they are still hitting numbers.

    For 2007 in the USA. Out of top 25 Term Issued.

    #2, AIG
    #6, ING
    #8, Protective
    #12, Primerica

    For 2007 Term In Force.

    #1, Met
    #5, ING
    #6, AIG
    #13. Protective
    #19, Primerica

    So all this stuff to me now is basically a mute point. Currently the news is saying Protective is in the process of buying Primerica and who knows what they will do with the products. The point is from what I can see we can inform the masses, but the products are still being sold and people are still going through the system. I guess it's true. they don't have to be the cheapest. It's basically who gets there first. This was very eye opening to me.

  65. LSM Insurance 09/28/2008 at 9:18 am

    It has been my experience as an insurance advisor you can best grow your practice and service your clients by providing straightforward and unbiased advise.

    Given the current economic enviroment rumours will likely continue to swirl around many insurance companies but advisors can still have significant impact on peoples lives by helping one person at a time.

    Regards ... Lorne

  66. Richard 10/07/2008 at 1:15 am

    I am a Primerica agent so take this comment with the same grain of salt as this article. Both can be considered bias.

    1. Primerica does not practice a one size fits all mentality. If the product doesn't fit, it does not get placed in force. On top of that, the term policy is customizable to the point that one can choose multiple lengths of coverage to cover things such as debt, mortgage, kids college, etc. In other words, you can provide cover for income replacement for 30 years, mortgage and college for 20 years, and debt for 10 years all within the same policy and have that amount (and the premium) fall off after a certain period of time.

    No other product I have seen does that. Do you know of any? (I would like to know.)

    2. The price of the policy has little reflection on Primerica's pay structure. Which, by the way, is similar to other insurance companies as well as real estate firms.

    3. You are right. Primerica policies are not convertible. Currently they exchange to other level term policies up to age 70. After that, renew to either ART or DT95/100. Insurability is not a factor. It is guaranteed.

    4. When looking at sales, would you rather have an agent whose next check is probably dependent on their next sale, or one that has a steady check and does not need the sale? You bash part time as a sin when it can be a blessing.

    5. Just because we are captive, does not necessarily mean a less capable agent. Since we don't offer just insurance, we need to be concerned not only about up front effects on the client, but also what happens on the back end. Assuming I do my job right every time, buy the time my client's reach retirement, they don't need insurance. But if they do, I can at least rest comfortably knowing they still have options that don't involve a massive price hike.

    I will not stoop as low as to insult another company, especially since that is illegal here in Texas, but of all the policies I have seen, I've rarely seen one that fully fit all my clients needs as well as a Primerica policy did. The few cases that have come up where a Primerica policy didn't fit, I have enough "friends" that could fit the bill.

  67. LSM Insurance 10/07/2008 at 2:15 pm

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for your comment. In reference to our firm having a bias - our brokers our independent and work with over 12 different insurance companies so there is no reason for one of them to have a bias.

    I will respond to your points in order:

    1. I think you are missing the point. An independent broker has access to the same Term plans as a Primerica agent but with the added ability to shop the market for the best rate. They also have access to Permanent life insurance policies which Primerica agents can't sell.

    2. Primerica does have more layers of distribution than other insurance companies thus more people have to be compensated.

    3. The life insurance plans mentioned are not level rate permanent policies so this is not a good option for someone who wants a policy at a fixed rate for life

    4. A good independent broker is highly compensated and would not be living pay cheque to pay cheque. In speaking with top brokers from around the globe "if you do a good job for people money will never be an issue."

    5. You are correct captive does not mean less capable but it does mean you have less solutions to choose from for your client.

    Thanks again ... Lorne

  68. Richard 10/07/2008 at 4:31 pm

    Lorne,

    Everyone can have a bias. Just because there is no reason for one, does not mean one does not exist.

    1. An independent broker does not have access to Primerica Polices. They are only marketed by Primerica agents. Although they may be able to offer similar products, I have yet to see one with the same features as a Primerica policy. All have either converted to a whole life policy at a much higher premium, exchanged to another term requiring another medical exam, or just expired. The only ones that I have seen and read that do not require a medical check, go up every year.

    2. I won't disagree that there are more levels to be compensated, however, to my understanding, that is not reflected in the price per thousand. I could be wrong since I do not make the prices.

    3. Again, assuming I have done my job right, they don't NEED it when they retire. If I had to guess, I would have to say you are just an insurance agent. Please correct me if I am wrong. There is nothing wrong with that, but you keep throwing around permanent policies as though they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. All they are, are just TERM policies with an option of a savings plan. Higher priced as well and pay a much higher commission.

    4. Just because an independent broker is well compensated does not mean they are good. That also does not mean they are not living paycheck to paycheck. I will agree that if one does a good job, money will never be an issue.

    Not all independent brokers do right by there clients. Same goes for some Primerica agents as well. However, in the spirit of things, both can do well.

    5. Just because I have one life insurance product, does not mean I have less solutions. It is one product with a bunch of options that take care of the vast majority of solutions.

    Please show my a term policy you have that can have the primary, spouse, and child on one policy as well as have different length's of term in it that gives discounts based on total face amount of all coverage instead of individually pricing each insured.

    If you have one of those, you have a product that is similar to a Primerica policy. And for those that missed it, that is ONE policy, not several.

  69. LSM Insurance 10/07/2008 at 5:03 pm

    Richard, thanks for the follow up note. We might have to agree to disagree on several of these points.

    You are correct an independent broker does not have access to Primerica policies but there are only a handful of instances when Primerica shows up as the top priced company and even in those instances it must be factored in that policies are not convertible to a true Permanent policy i.e. one where the premiums never increase.

    I agree the primary purpose of life insurance is to replace lost income and cover one's debts and liabilities. But several of our older clients (many of whom are quite wealthy) also enjoy the benefits of a Permanent life insurance policy. Permanent life insurance is a liquid tax free asset that can be used to offset taxes or maximize an applicants estate. Best of all many policies available in Canada are completely risk free. Life insurance companies offering non participating Whole Life policies which can guarantee a future tax free death benefit up to 8 your initial deposits. These policies are not impacted by market or interest rate flucuations.

    In Terms of other insurance companies other a multi life policy (with varying Term lengths) with a child rider. Several insurance companies offer this type of plan including Empire Life and Manulife. Manulife's Child Term rider allows the child to convert up to 25 times the amount of the benefit without a medical - that's a great feature.

    Thanks again for your comments. All the best! Lorne

  70. Richard 10/07/2008 at 5:31 pm

    I will agree to disagree.

    If you are comparing policies based solely on price and whether they convert to a permanent policy, you are doing a disservice to your clients.

    Granted what happens at the end of the term is important, but rating a policy down just because it does not convert is the disservice.

    Life insurance was only ever meant to cover ones loss of income and final expenses. Not provide emergency cash to cover taxes which could have been avoided. There are options for those high net worth clients that will allow them to pass on there estate without having to worry about estate taxes or paying for an overpriced insurance product.

    You being an intelligent person, I am quite sure you know of them. A family trust, for example, could be used to own all of the assets instead of the individual. It adds more paperwork, but brings a better value to our clients.

    There are even variable annuities available that only participate in the ups of the market and not the downs. Allowing for a much greater possible estate. Some can even provide extra money to cover estate taxes as well as the annuity itself being outside the estate upon death.

    Allowing a child rider to grow up to 25 times is a great benefit indeed, however, what are the restrictions on that? I'm not familiar of many insurance companies that like giving away that much "free" insurance.

    Note: ROP Insurance is not "Free" Insurance. Although you receive your money back, the cost is inflation. You actually lose money on it.

  71. LSM Insurance 10/07/2008 at 6:59 pm

    Richard,

    I disagree that "life insurance insurance was only ever meant to cover lost income and final expenses"

    Part of the challenge we are having is that there are different tax laws in Canada and the United states.

    RRSPs/RRIFs and several other investments in Canada are taxable on the death of the surviving spouse. Life insurance is one of the strategies that can be used to offset these taxes. Life insurance can also be very effective in enhancing the risk free component of one's estate.

    As for the Manulife plan "The children’s life rider covers each insured child for $10,000 at a cost of $2.04 per month. The plan allows each child to convert up to 25 times the coverage, or $250,000, without a medical." The child can exercise the option on a Term or Permanent policy.

  72. Observer 10/11/2008 at 6:17 pm

    From what I understand Primerica has unisex rates.

  73. LSM Insurance 10/11/2008 at 9:25 pm

    Thanks for the comment. That is a very interesting observation. Based on numbers I just ran on compulife that appears to be the case for plans issued at standard rates. Preferred rate policies do appear to be priced lower for males.

    Maybe a Primerica agent could confirm the rational for this as this is an obvious advantage for males (who have a shorter life span and should be priced higher) and a disadvantage for females (who should be priced lower)

    Regards ... Lorne

  74. Richard 10/11/2008 at 9:33 pm

    Primerica policies are unisex. Discounts are given based on total face amount of all coverage (primary plus riders).

    For preferred and preferred plus rates, a minimal of $150k of coverage is required.

    As for a lower priced male on preferred, that should not happen. We do not have different rates for men and women.

  75. LSM Insurance 10/11/2008 at 9:39 pm

    Thanks for your inights. I guess it works out if a husband and wife apply together. But if a single female applies on her own she is getting the short end of the stick. Conversly a single man is getting a better value.

  76. Observer 10/12/2008 at 2:42 pm

    The reasoning is because of of pricing the products so they can pay the different levels. Many pFS agents don't have a clue about how commissions are paid at other carriers/organizations. From what I understand below RVP they don't get paid renewals on some of their products. For example their LTC business or their Legal protection plans. At least that's the way it was when I was there. Do PFS agents understand how much money they are giving up as a whole? What about giving up a replacement leg?

    As for the discounts, many companies give discounts at different face amounts with seperate underwriting. It's easy to bundle a policy with a husband and wife on the same policy, but what about if there's a death or divorce? Then what? What is the process to unbundle the policy?

  77. LSM Insurance 10/12/2008 at 4:05 pm

    Thanks for the comment. It's a good point even insurance companies that do not offer multi life policies (i.e policies with multiple insureds on one policy) do offer discounts when there are multiple seperate policies in one household.

  78. Richard 10/12/2008 at 6:31 pm

    Without being part of the actual underwriting or policy making process, can one truly know why the prices are set the way they are or the reasoning behind it.

    Since it is not based on known facts, lets please keep the speculation of policy prices are based on paying multiple levels to a minimal when it is known that 10 and 15yr policies are not very profitable overall.

    The replacement leg is akin to a franchise system. When you open up new outlets, you keep some of the best sales people and promote the best managers into their own places.

    To change a policy due to divorce or death, it is a policy change form.

  79. LSM Insurance 10/12/2008 at 7:57 pm

    Thanks for the comment.

    While distribution costs for insurance companies are not known - it is a somewhat logical conclusion that companies with multiple distribution levels have higher costs. It is also known fact that females have lower mortality risk than males and should be priced lower . That is why females are priced at a lower rates accross the board by every insurance company.

    I agree many companies are losing money on their Term 10, 15 and 20 policies but many are still turning a profit on these plans. The only truly lapse insurance product is a Term 100 or Universal Life - Level COI plan. That's why some many companies pulled these products from there shelves. The attached article highlights this link to lsminsurance.ca
    Thanks ... Lorne

  80. Richard 10/12/2008 at 10:51 pm

    Regarding Universal Life, that brings up an interesting thought. Something I have noticed over the years.

    When it comes to Cash Surrender Value policies, they tend to go in and out of season depending on market conditions. If these (universal, variable, variable universal, whole, return of premium) products are so great, how come the industry as a whole keeps switching them around?

    On top of that, why not just cut to the chase and give them a term product (which those use anyways) and a separate investment product that will generate higher returns (due to fewer and lower fees) and cut out the extra fluff?

    Granted there is a difference between Canada and US tax laws (US may actually be more fortunate because of that), but could there be that much of a difference that wrapping the 2 together and charging more fees could be beneficial?

  81. Observer 10/13/2008 at 1:02 am

    The reason products go in and out of season is because products are constantly evolving. Today many perm. policies now have guarantees. Yes even universal Life. Some have a dial in a guarantee period. With that product the cash value isn't so important as the guarantee period.

    Now as for the isssue with having a cheaper Term policy and a side account. Well why not have the cheapest possible ( all things being equal) and then still have the side account?

  82. LSM Insurance 10/13/2008 at 8:56 am

    Thanks for the above two comments. I do agree products and pricing are constantly changing among carriers. Case and point Standard Life had a level cost Universal Life policy which was priced below most Term 100 plans on the market. They increased their rates so brokers in the know had to adjust their recommendations.

    It should also be noted Universal Life contracts do have guaranteed investments accounts. An example Transamerica's Universal Life account has a 4.25% return on it's guaranteed investment account. The funds grow within this policy on a tax sheltered basis (there is a limit on how much can be invested) and can be withdrawn after the 10th year without any surrender penalties.

    The policy can also be set up with an increasing death benefit where the accumulated value pays out on top of the face amount tax free.

    Regards ... Lorne

  83. Richard 10/13/2008 at 9:39 am

    So what about just using a term policy and an investment product that offers, say, a 5% garunteed return or market performance. Which ever is better. Grows tax differed, with no cap (as in I can't find one in the prospectus after looking with a double fine tooth comb). And it still comes out cheaper for the client. Same price, less fees, and a greater death benefit without having to pay extra for it.

    I do understand that products change and evolve, that's the nature of the game. However, I've noticed over the last 18 months alone that the "hot product" went from universal life to return of premium to now (in my area anyways) variable universal life.

    I ask again, if these products are so great, even counting in the fact of improvements, why keep rotating them out instead of having one product with multiple options?

  84. LSM Insurance 10/13/2008 at 1:17 pm

    The policy I was decribing above is a Universal Life with a Term 100 cost of insurance. The extra saving component grows on a tax sheltered basis and can go into an equity based or guaranteed investment fund. The guaranteed investment fund account is paying 4.25%.

  85. Richard 10/13/2008 at 10:22 pm

    Well, in order to keep pace with inflation and taxes, people need to earn between 6% and 8% depending on their tax bracket.

    So 4.25% is still not that great. 5% isn't either, but they get that or market performance, which ever is greater.

    Also, how long will that Universal Life policy take before the cash value has equaled the money put in? I'm willing to bet between 15 and 20 years. How many people you know feel good about breaking even after 15 or 20 years (or longer)?

    And one last thing, lorne and observer, you still have not answered the last question. If these products are so great, even with all the enhancements, why keep rotating them out ever couple months to couple years?

  86. LSM Insurance 10/14/2008 at 8:07 am

    Thanks for the note. The 4.25% is tax sheltered - which is an equivalent return of 7.5% for someone in a 40% tax bracket.

    For a risk free investment account that can be a very attractive return.

    As for rotating products, additional riders and benefits and are sometimes added or deleted but the basic plan has been offered for over 10 years and many of the popular non participating and participating Whole Life policies sold in Canada have been offered for over 20 years.

  87. PRIMERICA AGENT 10/15/2008 at 1:12 pm

    I am a primerica agent and I'm sorry to say I don't have term because i don't believe in it.

    It's more expensive out there! Get it in other brokerage or Insurance companies, you'll find a better deal.

    Shop around guys.

    Besides you can get Universal life for about the same price which gives you full coverage. It gives you Protection and tax efficient savings, there is no product out there that has it. Buy term, invest the difference? What should I invest in to give me tax efficient savings?

  88. Richard 10/15/2008 at 2:00 pm

    Hmm...don't believe in term yet believes in a product that is term insurance with a low yield savings plan wrapped into a high fee policy.

    As for tax efficient savings, try tax sheltered accounts. IRAs, RRSPs, 401ks, SEPs, SIMPLE IRAs, Annuities, etc. Any of a dozen accounts.

    I am hard pressed to believe you are, or ever were, a Primerica agent. Even the most basis associates get enough knowledge to understand the structure of a policy.

  89. LSM Insurance 10/15/2008 at 2:38 pm

    In response to the above two comments. Universal Life especially one with a level Term 100 cost of insurance will have a much higher initial cost than a Term 10 or Term 20 policy because the underlying cost of insurance is level for life. So to say you can get a Universal Life policy for the same price as a Term policy at least initially is incorrect.

    Richard is also correct in saying there are several straight investment accounts that offer tax sheltering. In Canada RRSPs and the new tax free savings account (TFSA) are a good place to start link to cra-arc.gc.ca

    Having said that Universal Life and other Permanent polices have their place. It is up to the insurance advisor to work with the consumer and review the pros and cons of each policy and pick the one which is the best fit. Regards ... Lorne

  90. wes 10/24/2008 at 9:58 pm

    Lorne,
    WoW it has been about a month since i last read your web site. What new stuff. I last talked to you about my Universal Life and Whole life that i was thinking about changing to a Primerica 35yr level Term. I ended up having a agent confrontation in my living room and letting the agents fight it out. My Current insurance agent talked about dividens. The Primerica agent talked about How much do I get if I live and How much i get if I die and how much i pay for it. The Primerica agent is part time, and I tell you what he had that full time insurance agent talking in cirles and chasing his tail. My current agent is a family friend, but after seeing how upset he got and how unprofessional he acted, i could tell this partimer was really on his game. I am now a primerica client and very glad i switched. I have more value and my mutual fund statement even though the market is down has more in it then the whole life had in the savings account after 4 yrs. If anyone out there is "contemplating" switching policies i say let the have an agent confrontation. You'll see what's really happening. GO PFS!!!

  91. LSM Insurance 10/24/2008 at 10:12 pm

    Hi Wes,

    Thanks for the note. I'm glad you're finding our website informative - we do our best to keep the information as up to date as possible. But replacing an established Whole Life or Universal Life policy with a new policy rarely works in the clients best interest.

    Insurance costs rise as you get older so a new equivalent policy is generally much higher in cost. The insured also has a new two year suicide and incontestability period and there may also be surrender penalties. Depending on the situation our brokers usually recommend supplementing an existing policy with a new plan if there is an additional insurance need.

    All the best! Lorne

  92. Richard 10/25/2008 at 12:08 am

    Lorne,

    Regrading the incontestability period, I know down here in Texas, when I replace a policy, I also take on the length of time the other policy is in force.

    In other words, if the existing policy has been in force for 3 years, what ever that coverage amount is, has no contestability period with Primerica. Anything OVER that amount will have a new one applied.

    More policies equal more fees for the client to pay and the company to collect. Wouldn't it be better for the client to reduce the fees instead of increasing them?

    In all the cases I have seen, it was always better to replace the policy than just add another one. Regardless of what they had.

  93. LSM Insurance 10/25/2008 at 8:33 am

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the note. I have never heard of such a thing in Canada. If anyone has some supporting documentation they can email me at lorne@lsminsurance.ca

  94. Observer 10/29/2008 at 1:47 am

    As for the incontestibility issue other companies underwrite more extensive than others. If nothing is hidden or false it's not an isssue. Now for the part about more policies equal more fees, you still have to look at modal factors and the issue of unisex rates. It's not so easy. With one company one may rate standard and preferred with another. Take a look at Old Mutual's term policies. An agent can have I think up to 6 people on one policy and you can add and subtract people at will. So PFS people learn the market.

    As for confrontations your talking about Term vs Cash Value..What happens when you go term to term? Do you consider the guarantee periods? Do you consider the conversion options?

  95. LSM Insurance 10/29/2008 at 9:19 am

    Thanks for the note. The incontestability period can have a significant impact at the time of claim. If any information was unintentionally omitted out by the insured this can be dramatically impact the likelyhood a claim will be paid out. Even if no information is not omitted policies which are in force two years are paid out quickier than policies under 2 years old. The reason for this is the insurance company does not go though the same level of scrutinization on policies beyond the two year constestability period.

    I do agree the insured also has to look very carefully at the guarantee period on the Term and the conversion options. Regards ... Lorne

  96. Richard 10/29/2008 at 10:39 am

    Incontestability can be an issue for some people so taking it up with a new one can be of great benefit for a client. Especially if they are increasing the value of the policy.

    I do compare the guarantee and conversion/exchange options of policies. However, once my clients understand how their policy works (I use their policy instead of just using generalizations), they want me to move them away from it. Usually related to either loosing what little cash value they have at death (unless they pay more) or being forced to go to a much higher priced policy if they get a non-insurable condition.

    To this day, I have never had a client leave me for another agent.

    Observer, I would appreciate it if you would show a bit more professional courtesy as Lorne has. Your hatred of Primerica shows through your comments and does discredit you as a reliable source of information.

  97. LSM Insurance 10/29/2008 at 11:20 am

    Thanks for comment.

    Each client and each situation is different. Many clients like the benefits of Permanent plan other prefer to stick with Term coverage.

    I think we can all agree that all options should be clearly presented to the insured and they can pick the plan that best suits their situtation. Regards ... Lorne

  98. Observer 10/29/2008 at 2:06 pm

    Let me just say I don't hate Primerica. I was once an agent with them. You say losing the cash value at death. Yes I was taught that also, but later I learned that the cash value is there so the policy can perform as designed. That's why companies loan it out and no it's not the clients money, because the company does lose use of that money. I say yes buy as much Term as possible and invest outside a policy. You PFS guys will stress price except when talking about term or looking at investment fees.

    As for the guarantee periods i'm sure you do explain them, but do you expalin the differnece between being fully guaranteed for the full term compared to being guaranteed for example 20/30? Do you also mention that some companies do allow partial conversions? That is a consideration if a person does develope a health issue. If a person aquires health related condition and they will see a need for permanent coverage for life look at your renewal rates compared to locking in a set premium and face value.

    My issue isn't with Primerica, my issue is doing what's in the best interest of the client. If I offer them term coverage, I want to offer the most coverage for the least amount of premium dollar from a good carrier. Differnt carriers have different products for different clients.

    My isssues are not personal towards you or any agent. As I said I was there. I was led to believe that I was doing what was best for my clients, but I was doing what was best for Primerica. When I had a client who had a certain amount of money per month for coverage and I saw the differnce in face amounts compared to other companies (with equal or higher ratings)and the client asked me why they should go with PFS, I saw that I was doing what's best for PFS and not for my clients. Try this do a comparison and consider death tomorrow. What would your clients get for their premium dollar compared to what you (PFS Life) provide compared to another carrier.

    As an independent contractor I had the option of where I placed my license. I owned my license(s) not Primerica. If PFS is where you want to be and whose products you wish to sell go for it, but don't act like your saving the world. Some of us have been there and done that and have taken a look at the business/industry inside and outside of Primerica.

    What do you suggest if a client has a family history of a health issue. Do you consider a perm. product along with a Term product? Looking at the financial enviroment today to you consider the Buy Term And Invest The Difference concept or the "Theory Of Decreasing Responsibility"? There are some people who have products with Mtual companies who are very happy. Yea I know dividends are a return of an over charged premium..One more time. I don't hate Primeica, I just understand their main goal is to sell their products. It's business. The crusade days are over.

  99. Richard 10/29/2008 at 3:21 pm

    First, my office never stresses price. Price has no relation to qualify of product/service.

    When it comes to cash value, I also do understand the purpose is to allow the policy to work as intended. However, does that include polices that are permanent policies designed to lapse by a certain age? How is that good for the client?

    Also, how can you explain to a client that paying 2 to 10 times more for a cash value policy then have to borrow money they put into it? That's extra money they could be putting anywhere of a dozen places that will generate a higher interest than what is in the policy and they can take it instead of taking out another loan.

    I do explain the guarantee period. I also ask, if during a time of a mass pandemic, would you rather the insurance company raise rates to stay in business or go out of business paying claims causing a domino effect of other companies doing the same?

    What I mean by pandemic is millions of claims, not hundreds or thousands. Realistically, for any company to raise rates, something of that magnitude would have to happen.

    From what I have been able to compare, face amounts would be quite close. It is also important to point out what does happen once a claim has been filed. Does the insurance company just issue a check, or check book, and mail it? Do they send the agent out with it? Does that agent offer a plan or suggest a single pay immediate annuity? I have even heard of companies sending the claim check and the agent placed it sticking out of the door for anyone to take.

    The big concern for the client after a claim is whether the agent is still going to be around, or did they just get paid and vanish?

    For "Buy Term and Invest the Difference" and "Theory of Decreasing Responsibility", they go hand in hand. Yes the market is going through massive fluctuations, but any securities licensed agent, like my self, knows this is just how the market works. It goes up, it goes down. People don't make money when the market is flat. People make money when it is volatile.

    I'm not here to save the world, just to save families from the same problem myself and family have had. And I can only do that one family at a time. That is my crusade, and it has barely begun.

  100. LSM Insurance 10/29/2008 at 4:35 pm

    Thanks for the comment. In reference to cash value on a life insurance policy it depends which type of Permenent plan. On a Universal Life policy with a Level Cost of Insurance any investment portion is paid out on top of the face amount and with sum companies i.e Empire Life and Manulife is accesible without any fees from Day 1.

    On a Whole Life Life policy a portion of the cash value is a guaranteed cash value which the insured can access on surrender on borrow up to 90%. The cash value is a return of the excess premium needed to keep the premiums level for life.

    Regards ... Lorne

  101. Richard 10/29/2008 at 4:55 pm

    Universal Life, at least in the US, Option B allows payout of the Cash Value. Option A does not. Option B also adds to the costs.

    As for keeping the premium level for life, there are ways to achieve the effect and being able to receive higher a rate of return.

    The thing to remember about guarantee is, to get one, you must give up something in return.

  102. LSM Insurance 10/29/2008 at 5:04 pm

    All Universal Life policies in Canada with a Term 100 cost of insurance have an increasing death benefit option (i.e option B)If you pay the minimum premium it would just cover the level cost anything in excess of this goes to an investment account which can be guaranteed certificates or equity based.

  103. Richard 10/29/2008 at 5:19 pm

    It's good to know some things don't change across the border.

    If nothing else, this discussion does help some people know the differences between north and south of the border.

  104. Observer 10/29/2008 at 6:23 pm

    Price does have a relation to what people have to spend and how much coverage a person can aquire. Consider cost per thousand. Your office doesn't consider cost because you only have one product for your term periods. If you look at differnt carriers you would see a difference.

    You say "When it comes to cash value, I also do understand the purpose is to allow the policy to work as intended. However, does that include polices that are permanent policies designed to lapse by a certain age? How is that good for the client?" Yet isn't term designed lapse? The cash value policy shouldn't be sold as a savings plan or as an investment. We both agree on that.

    You also say "The big concern for the client after a claim is whether the agent is still going to be around, or did they just get paid and vanish?" PFS has a running toal of 100,000 agents. How many are still around from the beginning or even 5 years ago? As for the market going up and down it is the way it works, but there are people who did that concept and if they are in their retirement or close years today how much time do they have to make up?

    My point is just because Primerica preaches it doens't mean it's right 100% of the time. Primerica as a company has a direct interest in keeping their agents just focused on their products and concepts. If your goal is to really help clients/families then consider other carriers and other products. If not then just admit your there to sell Primerica products. As a captive agent your loyality is to Primerica. I di notice you said "your crusade" not the Primerica crusade.

    It also shows the power of the kool-aid factor. I once drank is by the gallon.

  105. Carrie Zimmerman 10/30/2008 at 10:38 am

    To address the argument about our term being more expensive, that is true in some cases
    BUT.....
    what you're not addressing is QUALITY of product - our products protect with the insurance, but also with these benefits and guarantees included - most at no extra cost!!

    A) terminal illness benefit -access a % of your death benefit when diagnosed as terminal -NO COST

    B) No war exclusion - ALL are covered in the event of war - declared or not -NO COST

    C) ALL policies are GUARANTEED renewable regardless of insurability. -NO COST

    D) IBR -increases your coverage by 5% or 10% annually regardless of insurabiblity.
    -NO COST except premiums for new insurance

    E) child riders- children are covered under 1 rider with 1 premium. At age 25, they can have 5X the amount insured for regardless of insurability. COST for rider premiums

    F) waiver of premium - pays your premiums if you become disabled. COST

    G) family banding - combines the coverage amts into ONE policy. Clients usually recieve a lower premium. NO COST

    H) contestability period -the policy owner will not lose the times accrued on their old policy. NO COST

    I found it interesting Lorne that you seemed to avoid answering the question of whether or not insurance companies will keep their clients' cashvalues of wholelife policies at death. IT IS their money...they pay the premiums into it! Yes, the company may need it to "run" the policy, but at death, there is nothing to "run". All I need is a simple yes or no answer please.

    WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO CONVERT TO THESE???

    Something that gives you your insurance, but keeps your savings(whole life)?

    Something that becomes so expensive, it collapses in on itself(universal with increasing term)?

    OR WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE

    Something that gives you BOTH your insurance AND your savings???? Why would you even want to deal with a company AT ALL that keeps your cash when you die??? We don't offer permanent policies and for good reason!!!!!

    With Primerica, looking at the big picture, we save the family more money in more areas and give them a fighting chance at financial independence. No other company is doing that right now... proof of this is right in front of you. Who do you see handing out carts at Walmart, flipping burgers at McDonalds? More often it's seniors. WHY??? Because traditional financial and insurance companies have NOT done their jobs very well in the past. Primerica is a very controvertial company. Perhaps it's because we're doing things differently than they've been done in the past. Isn't it time that someone does???

  106. LSM Insurance 10/30/2008 at 1:52 pm

    Hi Carrie,

    Thanks for the note. The benefits you mentioned are built in to most Term life insurance policies.

    For example Transamerica Life policy on Catastrophic Events: If Transamerica's performance of any of its obligations under the Contract is delayed or otherwise made impractical by reason of any flood, riot, fire, acts of nature, labour unrest, acts of war, terrorism, power outage or any other causes beyond its control, such obligations may be postponed until the earlier of such time as the cause ceases to preclude or make impractical Transamerica's performance of such obligations and 7 Business Days.

    Virtually every company on the market has guaranteed renewable policies, family banding child riders etc. In fact Manulife allows you to covert 25 times the amount of coverage on a child without a medical and it is convertible to a Term or Permanent policy.

    No one has sent me a PDF of the contract verifying if if your contestability point is valid my email is lorne@lsminsurance.ca. If it is there is some value there.

    The availability and rational behind the cash value in a Whole Life policy has been mentioned in multiple posts "On a Whole Life Life policy a portion of the cash value is a guaranteed cash value which the insured can access on surrender on borrow up to 90%. The cash value is a return of the excess premium needed to keep the premiums level for life."

    As for your last comment there are good and bad advisors both on the captive and independent side.

  107. Richard 10/30/2008 at 3:04 pm

    Although many companies do have a guaranteed renewable policy, how many actively sell them as there bread and butter?

    Unless it is a decreasing term or annually renewable term, I don't see many companies doing that.

    I just sent you the page that has that information for the incontestability period.

    There is a place for permanent policies for higher net worth clients when you have a lack of options. There are products available that will do the same thing as a permanent policy with far less draconian rules.

    That being said, if the main purpose of the company the agent represents is just Life Insurance, those better products wont be available. If the agent represents multiple companies that are tied into other things such as securities, then those products may be available.

    Now Carrie, many of the features you mentioned are available in competing products. In some cases, I hate to say, may even be better (some policies offer higher/longer terminal illness benefit or a higher conversion for a child rider.). Now, not all products don't have a War Clause. Some still do. That is a benefit for us.

    The place where we shine the most, is that we are not just an insurance company. Since we can work in more areas, we can offset those few 'weak' points by offering greater returns and better service all around. Our products complement each other instead of overlapping.

  108. LSM Insurance 10/30/2008 at 4:25 pm

    Thanks Richard. You're correct the guaranteed renewable feature is not major variable because almost every Term policy has this feature and the reneal premium increase significantly.

    You can manually decrease the Term on any policy - I'm not a big fan of Annual Renewable Term.

    We will have to agree to disagree on the value of Permanent coverage.

    On your last point. Manulife offers virtually every financial product available. Life, Critical Illness, Long Term care, Investment Accounts, Mortgages and Banking.

    Regards ... Lorne

  109. James 11/01/2008 at 3:07 pm

    I was reading some of the garbage you have wrtten about primerica.... THE ONLY company doing what is right for the middle class.... I found your your comparison of insurance to be wrong ... yes primerica insurance is a little more expesive do to benifits that they offer that other companies will charge you more for.eg terminal illenss and they have no WAR exclusions. If UL and whole are such good products why do books such as the wealthy barber and finances for dummies, tell us to buy term and invest the difference... If term insurance is not the answer then there is no answer... and watch out for the other insurance agents selling you UL as term! its not!

  110. Observer 11/01/2008 at 3:38 pm

    I guess I should tone it down a bit but it's kind of hard when I see the blind faith that I once had. facts do distract and numbers don't lie. As John Addison said Primerica is profitable and the numbers are in the books. Just get there first. Make the money because it's not about the client. Keep recruiting and sell through the new persons warm market. That's the true secret of making it big at PFS. Commit to that and you can make six to seven figures.

    You don't have to have the lowest cost products and you don't have to recruit everyone, just duplicate the system. I couldn't do it. If you can more power to you. My loyalty was to myself as a business consideration. To my family, friends and clients when offering products, and my RVP/PFS last..If this gets posted or is allowed to stay posted, it is what it is.

  111. Richard 11/01/2008 at 4:43 pm

    The secret to any business is to build and duplicate a system. Look at McDonald's. Every store is almost identical (behind the counter) and the basics are easy to duplicate.

    When you recruit or hire someone into a new business, you use their talents, skills, or assets to further your own business or teach them skills to use.

    For any organization similar to Primerica, the asset is the warm market. If the recruit stays, you helped them build a business which you receive payments on. If they leave, you have furthered your own business. Either way, your business grows.

    Your loyalty should always be family first (unless you are religious, then many say put religion first then family), friends next, and your business/company last.

  112. LSM Insurance 11/01/2008 at 5:26 pm

    In response to James a couple of posts up. You comments are inaccurate several comparies have no war exclusions and terminal illness features built into their policies. You are correct in saying The Wealthy Barber advocates a Term only approach to life insurance planning. "Term insurance is the answer or there is no answer" is too simplistic an approach and there are multiple books on the market which advocate the benefits of Whole Life or Universal Life in the appropriate circumstance.

    Regards ... Lorne

  113. Richard 11/01/2008 at 5:39 pm

    James,

    There are a few cases where a cash value type policy may be more beneficial than a term. Even as a Primerica agent, I know this.

    Ex, someone just got diagnosed with a terminal illness but was told they have several years to live. If close to a renewal and afraid of rates sky rocketing with no guaranteed insuribility to another level term, a level cash value would be an option to prevent a mass hike in price.

    If they beat the illness and are past the 5-10 years later, they can typically get back onto term.

    Or in cases where someone can't get insurance and the only option is a guaranteed issue cash value. Some is better than none.

    I am using these references for middle income, not the wealthy.

    Sometimes, the best thing to do for the client, is to do nothing. Having some insurance is better than none.

    I wonder if this kind of thinking is why several agencies are actively trying to recruit me over. I can argue both sides with a straight face while still being a term only producer.

  114. LSM Insurance 11/01/2008 at 5:52 pm

    Thanks for the comment. We agree on this pont. Regards ... Lorne

  115. Observer 11/02/2008 at 3:20 pm

    If a cash value product is within the best interest of the client, I say it should be offered. If a Term product is withn the best interest of the client I say it should be offered. If a combination of both is within the best interest of the client I say it should be presented.

    I believe in Term. I say get the most amount of coverage for your premium dollar from a highly rated company for the length of term required.

    For the most part we are all on the same page, but just use different platforms. My loyality will never again be to one company. Client first.

  116. Ansu 11/03/2008 at 3:05 pm

    first off buy term and invest the difference will always win hands down. I don't know how educated you people are in terms of insurance products but take a look at it this way. Cash value (whole life) has a savings that you NEVER get to touch and the only way you get to have it is if you surrender the policy for the savings, thus having no more policy. If you pass away the company will keep the savings and just pay you the face amount which means the savings is really pointless! You can buy primerica term products and renew them until age 95. You can only have whole life until age 100 which by that time you will be paid the face value of the policy however the savings that has accumalted until that point will match the face value of the cash value policy, thus you would have eventually saved your own death benefit. Now tell me how this doesnt make sense.. term is by far way more cheaper than cash value, and with term you can have more coverage for a lesser price (BECAUSE THERE IS NO SAVINGS) now with the differnece of what you save on the term policy apposed to the cash value you should be investing (OUTSIDE) of the policy in a savings vehicle that has 10% ROR. That way you can save for retirement and be covered for the time period that you actually need insurance. Does Bill Gates need insurance? NO hes got money thus hes reasured! Only in some cases can cashvalue be any benefit what so ever as james states in his post two reviews above this one.
    thank you

  117. LSM Insurance 11/03/2008 at 4:36 pm

    Hi Ansu,

    Thanks for the note. We definetly disagree but you did make a few points that are factually inaccurate.

    1. The owner of a whole life policy can generally borrow up to 90% of the cash value. Also many Universal Life policies allow you to access the cash value from day 1 as a withdraw and not a loan

    2. You will pay into a Whole Life policy as much as it pays out. This is definetely inaccurate. A 30 year old non smoker can take out $250,000 Transamerica guaranteed 20 Pay Whole Life coverage for an Annual Premium $1370 a year - maximum contribution after 20 years is $27,400. That is a guaranteed tax free payout to the insureds estate of 9 times the contributions risk free.

    Many of the richest Canadians and Americans in the world use Permanent life insurance as a means to create a risk free portion in their estate.

    Obviously insurance is only part of ones financial plan and Term insurance is many times going to be the better fit. But a one size fits all philosophy does serve the consumer well.

    Not to be sarcastic but if you have any investments that guarantee a 10% rate of return I have a about 200 million customers for you. Thanks ... Lorne

  118. Richard 11/03/2008 at 4:56 pm

    Lorne,

    I will have to disagree with you on the estate portion. Many of the very rich in America have estates small enough to avoid the tax. Most of their assets are held in organizations like trusts and corporations that are family owned, not individually owned.

    I also believe Ansu was in reference to how money grows in the policy. Most cash value policies I have seen, the cash value grows to equal the death benefit, not the amount the insured puts into the policy.

    And although I don't have an investment product that guarantees 10%, I do have one that guarantees 5% or market performance, whichever is greater that even includes (with a fee) an option to boost the value by up to 40% upon death to help cover estate taxes.

  119. LSM Insurance 11/03/2008 at 7:15 pm

    Hi Richard

    Thanks for the comment. Permanent life insurance can be used for Estate Preservation and Estate Creation. I'm going to be adding an Internal Rate of Return calculator to my website in the near future which highlights this. Stay tuned!

    In Canada the minimum 5% rate of return plans you are referred as Guaranteed Minimum Withdraw Plans (GMWP). These plans are offered by many insurance carriers and can be great fit for some clients but they do have several caveats. A 5% guarantee is lot different than 10% guarantee. All the best! Lorne

  120. Richard 11/03/2008 at 7:23 pm

    I never said it couldn't. I was just in reference of a method the wealthy can reduce there estates to below the estate tax limit.

    I was in reference to a VA but always good to know.

  121. Observer 11/03/2008 at 9:20 pm

    Ansu there are currently products on the market that extend beyond age 100. As for the renewal of a term policy, look at the cost of renewal. The premiums if you paid them could eat up whatever savings you may have. Then what if there's a market down turn? It sounds so easy, but it's not.

    Considering you mention a Primerica term policy look at the cost of keeping the policy to age 95. Then look at the guarantee periods, especially at higher ages..

  122. Richard 11/04/2008 at 12:21 am

    Insurance of any kind is meant to cover an unexpected loss, correct? I'm sure we can agree to that. Since this has no been brought up yet, I shall ask.

    This is a what if scenario.

    If a couple has enough retirement income in the right products to guarantee they will never run out of money, they have long term care insurance to cover a retirement center, no debt of any kind, and a burial fund set aside. All things any decent Primerica agent, or financial adviser, would do for their clients and ensure that it happens.

    Do they really need permanent life insurance?

  123. LSM Insurance 11/04/2008 at 7:52 am

    Richard - thanks for the note.

    I agree the primary purpose of a Term life insurance policy is to replace an enexpected loss and this is a crucial function.

    However, as stated above Permanent life insurance can also be used for Estate Preservation and Creation.

  124. Observer 11/04/2008 at 1:26 pm

    Yes they can need permanent coverage if there will be tax issues after the last spouse dies. Sometimes people do wish to transfer property to their children.

    Remember the term product at some point is going to end. People don't stay married forever anyomre. People do buy homes in later years. People do get remarried in later years...Life events do happen.

    In a perfect world BTIV works. LTC works, but is the pricing of LTC guaranteed? For the masses term is the way to go. Get a term policy for the duration needed and if by chance permanent protection is need the client can look at the conversion option or shop for a new policy. When looking at a policy the client should what policy options the company will allow the client to convert to. Conversion allowed to only W.L./U.L. or any permanent product available by the company?

  125. Anthony Michaels 11/07/2008 at 12:46 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    Unfortunately, your philosophies on life insurance are not in tune with the overwhelming majority of reputable financial experts.

    According to the experts, i.e. Suzie Orman, Ben Stein, Charles Givens, Dave Ramsey, the list goes on. There recomendation for families is to buy term insurance and invest the difference.

    In addition, they should replace there existing whole life and universal life policies health permitting with a term product and keep there investments separate.

    Also, with a Primerica policy it is guaranteed renewable to age 95.

    There is no debate amongst financial experts on what the overwhelming majority of people should do. Buy Term and invest the difference!

    It is unfortunate that advisors like yourself are only concerned in lining your pockets with the products that pay you the most.

    Shame on you.

    As you are well aware, Primerica works perdominantly in the middle market. As Middle income families are struggling to get ahead it is refreshing that a company is out there educating clients on what they really need.

    Anthony

  126. LSM Insurance 11/07/2008 at 1:00 pm

    Hi Anthony,

    Thanks for the comment. But I strongly disagree with you post. Any insurance adviser who recommends a client to cancel an established Whole Life or Universal Life policy without closely disecting their circumstances is giving VERY poor advice.

    To simply say buy Term and Invest the difference is much to simplistic approach and this is the consensus option among most Certified Financial Planners I have spoken to.

    As I've stated in several posts before a good broker is very will compensated and will never have to worry about commissions - so lining ones pockets so to speak should not an issue.

    Regards ... Lorne

  127. Anthony Michaels 11/07/2008 at 1:24 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    Perhaps you would like to list the names of these reputable Certified Financial Planners that would not replace any whole life or universal life product. Id love to research them and see how they stack up against Suzie Orman, Ramsey etc.

    As I stated earlier, Primerica predominantly works in the middle income market. Life insurance is temporary when someone has obligations.

    As you know, clients with whole life policies do not keep the cash savings when the policy owner passes away.

    The only way to access that money without being charged 5 to 8% interest to take out your own money (Wow what a deal!!!)is to cancel that terrible policy and buy term insurance and invest that cash value separtely.

    The experts agree. Once again this of course would make sense if the client is in good health and would qualify for a term policy.

    Primerica also offered my family a Financial Needs Analysis. A comprehensive document that looked at my families debt, investments and insurance, childrens education etc. This was FREE!!! Find me a company that will do this complimentary. Maybe there are some. Nonetheless, Primerica did it free.

    They offered me solutions, not just expensive, rip off products like whole life.

    The truth is, Lorne all the companies that you represent only offer 20 year terms with very expensive renewable rates.

    We have a 30 year term which for my wife and myself paying $60/month with total coverage of $500,000. Find me a company that will beat that?
    My policy also has a terminal illness benefit rider attached to it.

    Do the policies u sell have that rider already included?

    Probably not.

    Anthony.

  128. LSM Insurance 11/07/2008 at 2:16 pm

    Hi Anthony,

    I'm a Certified Financial Planner (CFP) since 2000 - I also completed my MBA in Finance in 1993. I can't post the name of others without their consent. Suffice it say there are thousands of CFPs around the world who recommend Permanent insurance - many of whom I've met at past MDRT.

    Your other points have all been addressed in previous posts.

    Unity Life, AIG, Transamerica, Assumption Life and Industrial Alliance all offer 30 Year Term plan many of which are convertible and offered at lowered premium. Most companies offer a built in Terminal Illness benefit.

    Regards ... Lorne

  129. Richard 11/08/2008 at 9:31 am

    Anthony,

    Please do some research before making blind accusations.

    AIG offers a 35 year term and almost all carriers offer 30 year. Many push 20 Year for various reasons.

    Other companies can beat our prices, but a client should never look at price alone in determining a policy. And never compete with that. Period.

  130. LSM Insurance 11/08/2008 at 9:51 am

    Richard - Thanks for your comments. I agree the are variables beyond price which must be presented. Regards ... Lorne

  131. Richard 11/08/2008 at 10:01 am

    Lorne,

    I never thought I would see the day that a Termite and a Whole Lifer would actually agree on points.

    Paraphrasing the greatest heroes of our time,

    "Man I Love Being A Termite!!! Cowabunga Dude!!"

    (I have a 3yr old. Nuff said.)

  132. LSM Insurance 11/08/2008 at 11:56 am

    Thanks for the note. I don't consider myself a Whole Lifer (our brokers sell quite a bit of Term insurance when the situation warrants) but we're all in the business of trying to help people so there should be some common ground.

    Regards ... Lorne

  133. Anthony Michaels 11/09/2008 at 12:10 am

    Hey Richard, Lorne

    I just went on AIG's web page and all I'm seeing is 10 and 20 year terms.

    Perhaps you can direct me to the proper email address as I am interested in there 35 year term.

    Thanks,

    Anthony

  134. Anthony Michaels 11/09/2008 at 12:32 am

    Hey Richard,

    I only found a 30 year term for AIG not 35 year term. Perhaps you should do your research. Lorne, I thought you might have caught that.

    By the way Primerica was the only A+ rated company by AM Best of all companies I saw on several insurance web quote sites offering a 30 year term policy.

    THE ONLY A+ COMPANY OFFERRING A 30 YEAR TERM. WOW THEY ARE FINANCIALLY STRONGER THAN INDUSTRIAL ALLIANCE, AIG, UNITY ETC.

    Best Regards,

    Anthony

  135. LSM Insurance 11/09/2008 at 8:45 am

    Hi Anthony,

    Our brokers are only licensed in Canada - the plan Richard is commenting on may be available in the US - I can't comment.

    In Canada AIG just introduced a 30 Year Term.

    Assumption life Life offers a 35 year Term and Co-Operators offers a Term to 75. Therefore a 30 year old could essentially get a convertible 45 year Term. Industrial Alliance has a very interesting plan called pick-a-term. The insured can pick pick their desired Term up to 75 - the Term can be would ever rate they like up to 75.

    Multiple companies in Canada also offer Term to 100 coverage.

    I hope this helps. Regards ... Lorne

  136. Richard 11/09/2008 at 10:06 am

    AIG Selete A Term 35 Year. And it may be a US only product right now. I am not associated with AIG so I am not sure.

    Primerica's Custom Advantage can be upto a 35 Year product and should be available in Canada. Primerica is prone to approving new products in as many places as possible before releasing them to the public.

    I can't comment on Canada either since I am currently only licensed in Texas.

  137. LSM Insurance 11/09/2008 at 12:09 pm

    Thanks Richard - The AIG 35 year Term plan is not available in Canada. I use Compulife comparison software and as far as I can tell the maximum Term on Primerica's Custom Advantage Term is 30 years.

    If some has access to their Canadian software and wants to email me an illustration please feel free to do so at lorne@lsminsurance.ca

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  138. Observer 11/09/2008 at 5:34 pm

    Anthony here's some calculators for you: go here to check US life insurance rates or on this site for Canadian life insurance rates (you get a thirty year term option after you submit your first quote (default is to twenty year).

    AIG American General Life - AIG Select-A-Term
    Product Features Underwriting Guidelines State Approvals Underwriting Requirements

    AIG American General Life - AIG Select-A-Term Product Features
    Type Term Product
    Conversion Options AIG Select-A-Term policies may be converted to a level-premium, level-death benefit permanent life insurance plan of the company's choosing during the conversion period without evidence of insurability.

    The conversions period extends to the earlier of the end of the level-premium period or the insured's attainment of age 75.

    35 Year Term
    Pref Plus, Pref NT, Std Plus, Std NT, Special NT 20-45
    Pref T, Std T, Special T 20-40

    Face Amounts
    Min/Max Minimum Death Benefit
    $250,000

    Modal Factors Semi-annual = 0.52 Quarterly = 0.265 Monthly = 0.0875

    AIG American General Life - AIG Select-A-Term State Approvals
    Available in NY under US Life
    31-35 Year term lengths not available in MT, NY and WA

  139. Richard 11/09/2008 at 9:52 pm

    Anthony,

    I did do my research which is how I know about the 35 Year from AIG.

    And in case you did not read all the comments, I am also a Primerica agent.

    Do Primerica a favor, and do your research before making blind statements. Just because you can't find something, does not mean it doesn't exist.

  140. Anthony Michaels 11/10/2008 at 10:52 am

    Hey Lorne,

    Can you get the third party info supporting perm. insurance for mid class families?

    Anthony

  141. LSM Insurance 11/10/2008 at 12:20 pm

    Hi Anthony,

    The first step in any life insurance decision should be determining the right amount of coverage. We have a very good on-line tool for this link to lsminsurance.ca

    Obvioulsy if someone is strapped in debt it wouldn't make sense to take on large Universal or Whole Life policy. That is not something our brokers recommend and this has not been something I have suggested in any of the above posts.

    Permanent and Term insurance both have a place in the marketplace. That is why it is crucial prospective life insurance purchasers deal with a reputable and knowledgable broker. I always recommend asking for references.

    I hope this helps! Regards ... Lorne

  142. Anthony Michaels 11/11/2008 at 12:01 am

    Hi Lorne,

    Not really. What we are looking for is outside resources that states when and who should have universal or whole life.

    I am well aware of the 5 reasons why anyone needs life insurance.

    However, I do believe that 99.9% of the middle class should have term and invest the difference.

  143. LSM Insurance 11/11/2008 at 12:05 am

    Hi Anthony,

    I disagree with a blanket solution for everyone. Each client has to have his/her needs taken into account.

    The following is from Investment Funds Institure of Canada an unbiased third party. Many of these needs can only be solved with a Permanent policy i.e a Term 100, Universal Life or Whole Life policy:

    "The following is a list of some common situations for which insurance can be used:

    To protect a family financially. Life insurance on the life of an income earner can provide funds to replace his or her income in the event of death. The death benefit provides financial support for his or her survivors, alleviating the financial hardships they may otherwise encounter.

    To fund a trust fund. Anyone who is supporting a financially dependent child or adult can purchase life insurance on his or her own life. In the event that the caregiver dies, the guaranteed death benefit can be used to create a trust fund to provide continued support for the dependent child or adult.

    To pay off debt. Mortgages, bank loans, and certain investment strategies can create sizeable debt. Life insurance can guarantee that if the borrower dies, there will be sufficient funds available to pay off these liabilities.

    To pay income taxes. Many self-employed individuals and professionals pay their income taxes quarterly. Life insurance can provide funds to pay outstanding taxes if the individual dies.

    To pay capital gains tax. When an individual dies, taxes must be paid on the difference between the cost price and the market value of their capital property, such as a cottage, investment portfolio, or rental property. The individual's heirs may not have the funds available to pay these taxes, and as a result may be forced to sell the assets. Life insurance can provide funds that can be used to pay these taxes.

    To fund bequests. It is the wish of many people to leave a cash bequest to a charity, family members, or friends. Life insurance can provide funds for these bequests in a tax efficient manner."

  144. Richard 11/11/2008 at 1:06 am

    Those are all needs for life insurance. Not whole or universal life specifically. They can also be solved by other products more efficiently. At least down here in the states.

  145. LSM Insurance 11/11/2008 at 9:38 am

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the note. I think Permanent life insurance is a great way to provide a risk and tax free money to offset the above insurance needs. The are other methods but Permanent insurance can be an excellent fit depending on the situation.

  146. Anthony Michaels 11/14/2008 at 10:40 am

    Hi Lorne,

    Permanent Life insurance is a great way to overpay in premiums and admin costs and not have enough coverage.

    It is a waste of money especially for younger middle class families who need to save for retirement. They do not need life insurance for there whole life especially if they save there money by investing the difference.

    Do you have supporting documentation on why whole life is good for middle income families.

    Best Regards,

    Anthony.

  147. LSM Insurance 11/14/2008 at 11:01 am

    Hi Anthony,

    As stated above I disagree with a blanket solution for everyone. Each client has to have his/her needs taken into account and if Term is the best solution they should have a unbiased independent broker shop for the best value.

    The Investment Funds Institure of Canada is an unbiased third party - there are numerous others. Many middle income families have a need for Permanent life insurance to:

    1. Pay of income taxes
    2. Older individuals paying off debt. Many people in today's economy have debt into their 60's and 70's and Term life insurance is not an option.
    3. To Fund Bequests.

  148. Chad 11/16/2008 at 1:34 am

    Hi Lorne,
    This is the first time I came to this site and I really enjoyed reading your insights, your unbiased opinions and your patience. I stumbled upon this site while I googled the story about Citigroup trying to sell Primerica. I am so happy that there are advisers like yourself in our industry and in my neighborhood.
    Many years ago, when I was a new immigrant, I was with Primerica. I used to "kill" permanent insurance. After doing CFP I realized that Term insurance is not the only way to fulfill the needs of our clients. There isn't a one-size fits all solution. Thus, I became an independent broker.

  149. LSM Insurance 11/16/2008 at 2:48 pm

    Thanks Chad. I appreciate the kind words.

    I very much agree with your assesment that a "one size fits all solution" is a disservice to the consumer.

    Regards ... Lorne

  150. Wes 11/17/2008 at 11:46 pm

    Hey Lorne
    I havn't heard of any financial professional endorse permanent insurance. Any book i've ever read on finance recomends low cost term insurance and investing the difference. How come no one recommends whole or permanent insurance. Hmmmm... your thoughts? Thanks

  151. LSM Insurance 11/17/2008 at 11:54 pm

    Hi Wes,

    Thanks for the email. As stated above the Investment Funds Institute of Canada an unbiased third party endorses Permanent life insurance solutions when it is the best fit for the client as does the Million Dollar Round Table the Premier Association of Financial Professionals.

    The key point to remember is that every case has to be look at on it's individual merits. Regards ... Lorne

  152. Richard 11/18/2008 at 12:11 am

    The Million Dollar Round Table is also mostly made up of Cash Value agents.

    The reason Term is recommended for middle income families is because 99% of the time, it IS the BEST fit.

    For the record, middle income is all families with a combined take home yearly pay of $250k or less. Poor is around $24k or less.

  153. LSM Insurance 11/18/2008 at 8:54 am

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the note. The Million Dollar Round Table is made up of the most successful independent brokers and captive agents from around word. Many of it's members are pioneers and leaders in the industry. The conventions are also attended by variety of legal, tax and medical experts.

    As for your second comment - this a wholesale statement with no stats supporting it. Not to sound like a broken record "but every case has to be look at on it’s individual merits." A middle income family with no dependents with no debt and a family cottage have to be treated differently than one mired in debt.

    Reards ... Lorne

  154. kenny 11/18/2008 at 10:38 am

    i am 21 years old.No smoking.
    i want to buy a insurance?but i dont know the rate in different company.Can you help me to compare insurance premiums among life insurance in Canada.
    My premiums is about $100,000

  155. Observer 11/18/2008 at 2:21 pm

    Buy Term invest The Difference, Theory Of Decreasing Responsibility. Take a look at today's economy.

    Pension Max. Special needs dependents. Sure Term is a great option, just not a 100% of the time option. That's why some people bundle Perm with term.

  156. LSM Insurance 11/18/2008 at 2:45 pm

    Hi Kenny,

    Thanks for the note. I have attached a links to my website which allow you to analyze how much life insurance you need as well as get an instant on-line quote.

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    Please feel free to contact me by phone or email and I would be happy to connect you with a broker in your area.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

    Lorne S. Marr CFP MBA
    President
    LSM Insurance
    2900 John Street Suite 302
    Markham, Ontario L3R 5G3
    Tel: 905-248-4849 Cell: 647-388-3617
    Toll Free: 1-866-899-4849 Fax: 905-300-4848
    lorne@lsminsurance.ca http://www.lsminsurance.ca

  157. amanda 11/19/2008 at 1:34 pm

    i work for primerica and i can say your accusations are inaccurate. its one company that their employees can work part-time. its a choice we make. some people have higher goals. you work the amount you want to recieve. i work as a full time employee and i am able to stay home with my kids. in regards to the terms in life insurance maybe you didnt get the whole information. i had life insurance through another company that i will not name on here that i was paying 70 dollars more then when i started with primerica. i for one am a young family with a term policy.

    you are making blank statements and you should research your information before making statement. every client is looked at from a different eyes and a fresh view.

    if we cant do better we wont do it at all.

    i know from personal experiance that not all my insurances are through primerica. but i have some that are through. and they are doing a fabulous job to get me out of debt.

    from personal experiance i was going to file bankrucy until i sat down to support my friend in starting the company and they left and i was in tears in AMAZMENT at what they could do for me. thats why i started the buisness because I WANT TO MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE FOR OTHER PEOPLE. I WANT PEOPLE TO HEAR A GOOD THING.

    ONE OF THE BEST THINGS I CAN SAY IS LOOK AT PRIMERICA VS CLARICA. EVEN IN ADVERTISING WE DONT ADVERTISE BECAUSE IF WE DID THATS OUT OF YOUR POCKET TOO. IVE BEEN THROUGH ALOT OF OFFICES AND PRIMERICA HAS BEEN THE BEST OUT THEIR.

    WE WORK CLIENTS FIRST FAMILY SECOND BUISNESS THIRD. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE SATISFYING YOU. we dont force things on you. we come to you, we talk to you and you make the decision. like i said if we are not there to best suite you, the best their is then we dont do it at all

  158. LSM Insurance 11/19/2008 at 3:13 pm

    Hi Amanda,

    Thanks for your comment. It sounds like you had a very positive experience. I've stated in the article and several posts Primerica has improved it's pricing on many products. I'm sure Primerica has several good agents. But I think the consumer is best suited by a highly qualified full time independent broker (ask for testomonials and credentials) who has a complete assortment of insurance solutions and does not have a bias towards any paticular insurance company.

    Regards ... Lorne

  159. Robert 11/19/2008 at 7:01 pm

    I would like to throw my hat into the ring as well.
    I am a middle age family man and situated right down the middle income bracket range.
    I have just started my working with Primerica. I evaluated my own insurance/ future financial plans and some of my close friends and relatives.

    My take is this:
    (I will not mention specific companies here and put them down)
    My old insurance company re-offered to change my policy to term at a lower cost than Primerica now that I have chosen term. My question to them was why did they not guide me to this course originally when they had a chance? Their response was that they didn't know that this is what I wanted. This from a reputable, full time insurance broker...
    I could take advantage of the lower price but why would I go back to a company that was (for a lack of a better term) ripping me off right from the start? This same story applied to my family and friends as well.
    Primerica might not have the cheapest insurance on the market, but I know exactly what I am paying for and they did not take advantage of me or my family. I also now have a much better idea of where my future financial goals are heading thanks to a plan that fits my budget.
    If you must make the most commission from every sale, then go fill your boots. There are plenty of insurance companies you can work for. I wouldn’t be able to sleep nights knowing I didn’t do right for the families that I meet.

    Primerica puts together a comprehensive package to not only protect families with insurance but also structure a real world plan for their future. I firmly believe that most regular, everyday families do not have this. I know everyone around me didn’t…
    If you believe that the corner banks and insurance companies have your best interest in mind, by all means continue you present course. Before you do, just look back in your history and see the progress they have made for you. This is a good prediction of your future. As the saying goes, “Continuing the same action and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity”.
    If you are one of the few disciplined individual that is on a path of financial independence and have a good heart in helping those less fortunate around you, keep up the good work. For the rest of us, I can only wish that an opportunity comes by and that you do not let it slip away before its too late…

    Primerica is that opportunity for me and I will be damn if I let this chance slip thru my fingers! I will work hard to meet and help as many families that I can, knowing full well that not all will want or take what I can offer them. This is my reality and I accept it. I will always thank them for giving part of their precious time then move on. I also know this fact; my effort will directly affect my outcome. I will blame no one for my failures or let anyone take credit for my success. I will only thank Primerica for giving me and my family an opportunity.

    In advance, I am sorry if I offended anyone that reads this. It was not my intention.
    Thank you for allowing me to share my views.

  160. LSM Insurance 11/19/2008 at 7:25 pm

    Hi Robert,

    Thanks for your comment it is very well thought out.

    But it implies that a qualified Primerica agent has the resources to put together a better financial plan than a qualified independent broker/advisor

    I do not agree with this assesment. A qualified independent broker will have access to a full array of products to put a complete financial plan in place. Some independent brokers offer insurance and investments others build a team approach and work with other professionals.

    I think the value added difference is the independent broker/advisor can do this with a larger selection and without any bias.

    Regards ... Lorne

  161. Richard 11/19/2008 at 7:31 pm

    Lorne,

    Both points are valid, but you are missing one. That well qualified independent broker had the opportunity from the get go to do what was right and education their client. Instead, they choose to do what was right for their pocket book.

    The fact they came back and re-offered a lower cost product illustrates that.

    The value one brings to the table is not the assortment of products offered, it is the person. You can get great service from anyone, but has that person been through the same troubles you are going through? If they haven't, can they truly understand what it feels like and offer the solution that would be best?

  162. LSM Insurance 11/19/2008 at 8:06 pm

    Thanks! But I've seen no evidence that Primerica agents are more qualified than Independent Brokers.

    I can not comment on the qualification of an independent broker I've never met nor can I comment on how well qualified a paticular captive agent would be.

    I think it is safe to say an independent broker has more tools to work with than an agent who only sells products for one paticular company.

  163. amanda 11/19/2008 at 9:21 pm

    i have also stated we are qualified. we have to go through criminal checks and courses and provincial exams. if we dont pass we cannt continue. we dont do what we choose is right for our pocket books. I CAN SAY FOR ONE that i wouldnt educated my family and my friends and my friends friends on soimething i knew little about nor would i want to make money from them knowing i am making their situation worse.

    i work hard everyday any time. its not about what is good for me its whats good for them. thats exactly what we do. we dont avertise because it comes out of peoples pockets. we go through word of mouth. i would rather have an opinion and a chance to sit and have a posssibility of people being able to be helped then get paid anyday.

    i dont get paid to sit down with people there for its not the first thing that comes to mind

    i help people get financially independant. i make sure that they do not have the middle man who sucks all their money dry. i make sure that they know how to invest their money so they save money. unlike the bank who is out their to get their share of the money. i have never learned so much like i have with primerica and i know that i want my friends to know about this wonderful opportuity not only to get out of debt but to beable to be a person involved in this amazing job and to beable to tell their friends about it

  164. Observer 11/19/2008 at 9:44 pm

    Ok let me throw my two cents in. I was once a Primerica agent. There is a HUGE difference between being captive and independent. many primeica agents think they are doing what's in their clients best interest, but they are doing the best they can do with what they can do. They can't have it both ways. They can't down another company on price when they have price issues themselves when compared with the competition.

    As for the education part, that's all great but it's done to sell products. Do they educate you on the difference between a cancer policy and a critical illiness policy? NO, because they don't sell it. Now as for the loyalty of having their life product compared to another, at death the claim will get paid no matter the company. Now if someone has the chance to get the same coverage for less there's also the possibility to get more coverage for the same premium. Now who would that benefit? The benefit would be for the beneficiary.

    Has Primerca started to offer disability yet? How about Fixed Annuity products? You guys sole responsibility is to sell primerica products. You say if a client doesn't need a product you don't push anything because it's in the clients best interest, well what if you know of a carrier which can offer a product that can help them free up more money to invest?

    Primerica agents are captive agents who are independent contractors. I was there. I know what it's like inside and outside Primerica. There is a huge difference in products and compensation. Primerica is a legit company whp has their indicidual business model and they price their products as they see fit, that's business. What you guys are saying are some of theings I used to say when battling on message boards, but I didn't know what I didn't know.

    Right now I can do the everything a Primerica agent can do and more, but Primerica agent can't do what I can do for a client. I still have the same licene(s), the difference is now i'm independent and not captive. Let me say I don't hate Primerica. The Primerica platform is a good fit for some people, but just know what to compare against. It's kind of hard to say your doing what's right for clients when you only see and hear one side. Being loyal to a company is great, but it has to go both ways.

  165. LSM Insurance 11/20/2008 at 8:40 am

    Thanks for the above comments. As mentioned in above posts I have seen no evidence that Primerica agents are more qualified than independent brokers. All licensed agents - captive or independent go through provincial exams this a requirement to get licensed. Each insurance company also does screening as part of it's contracting process.

    I would be curious if anyone has any stats on the number of Primerica agents who are CFPs or CLUs compared to the industry as a whole.

    For the purpose of this blog I am assuming the level of education and knowledge is equal between Primerica agents and outside Independent Brokers. But common sense would dictate that a full time broker would have more training and expertise than a part time agent. I think it is safe to say Primerica has more part-time agents than industry as a whole but I do not have stats to back this up. Regards ... Lorne

  166. Robert 11/20/2008 at 1:32 pm

    Lorne,
    “Thanks! But I’ve seen no evidence that Primerica agents are more qualified than Independent Brokers.
    I can not comment on the qualification of an independent broker I’ve never met nor can I comment on how well qualified a paticular captive agent would be.
    I think it is safe to say an independent broker has more tools to work with than an agent who only sells products for one paticular company.”

    Primerica agents are NOT more or less qualified than other agent. We are equal in qualification and certification. We could work for but not choose to, work for any other insurance firm. Part time or full time only reflects the hours that are put in, not the quality or the knowledge base of the person. It is true that others might be more informed. Hell In my pervious job for 15 years, there was always someone I can learn from. This didn’t mean that I was not very good at what I did.
    Primerica like the rest of the working world has a structure that people can call upon if the need arises. It is based upon experience and nothing more. If I am faced with a problem or question that is challenging, I will bring it to the attention of the people that can answer those questions for me. Is this not the same for any job? In my other life we called it tech support…
    I am quite sure that other insurance agents come across unique situations that would need further queries and investigation that needs to be followed up at a later date, or am I wrong in this assumption?
    Lastly, when did a salesman for Sony, Coke, Nike, etc. Start making it available for their customers to buy competitor’s products from them? Why then is it such a stigma when referenced with Primerica. I always try to stay informed of the current trends of my business, but I believe in my product and stand by it 100%.

  167. LSM Insurance 11/20/2008 at 3:14 pm

    Thanks for your comment. About 15 years most insurance agents were captive. But as the industry has evolved more companies have choosen the brokerage model.

    In my opinion it is just common sense that consumer is better served by someone who has a larger basket of solutions. Regards ... Lorne

  168. Observer 11/20/2008 at 4:53 pm

    Robert hit the nail on the head. "Lastly, when did a salesman for Sony, Coke, Nike, etc. Start making it available for their customers to buy competitor’s products from them? Why then is it such a stigma when referenced with Primerica?"

    The PFS agents are in a clients home to sell their products period. Now as for training? Yes they are required to have the same licenses to sell the same products as everyone else, but beyond that there's a huge difference in training inside and outside of Primerica. When i went to conventions they wer more liek revival meetings. Now when I go to company conventions we have many different vendors there explaining many different concepts and where their products may apply.

    In the US many PFS agents don't know about the issue with Fixed Indexed Products and the SEC. Why? Because as I noted before they don't sell the products, they don't need to stay abreast of that situation. All they need to know is their products and how to sell them, that's it. They don't know that many agents are starting to go the RIA route and why.

    Forget all the emotion and look at it just as a business and it will become more clear. It's the system that drives Primerica. There's no need for the agents to be too knowledgeable. There's no need to have the lowest cost products. Consider this. Many of the PFS agents own the PFS products as do their families. Well in many instances if they shopped their coverage they could possibly get more coverage for the same premium elsewhere. Why do they not shop their individual needs? Loyalty. Loyalty to Primerica and in some cases to their RVP. Who is the beneficiary in most cases? Their immediate family. Many agents rather than providing potentially more of a death benefit from another carrier will purchase a Primerica product for their own needs rather than shop the market. Now get this. Agents are independent contractors. NOT EMPLOYEES. Yet i'm sure you have heard the quote, "how can you sell it if you don't own it?"

    Here's the system. Recruit a new agent. Go see their warm market. Sell to their warm market. Friends and family are loyal in most cases. Does it matter to them if Primerica's prices are higher than what they can get if shopped? No, they just need to be competitive. If you compare the Term prices against a perm. product and then throw in the rule of 72 Primerica will come out smelling like a rose.

    So it's not the agent knowledge, it's not the products. It's the system they have in place. It's designed so that most anyone can do it. That's why they will say recruit anyone breathing who can pass the test, background checks and then just keep who sticks. Keep people coming and going. Recruit to sell.

    Now the kicker to all of this is you as agents do all the recruiting and training and per contract if you decide to leave, what can you take with you? Primerica is a business...If it works for you that's great. Just know there is business side also. This is much deeper than just buying or not buying a Primerica policy because recruiting is also tied into all this. People need to know and seperate the policy contract and the agent contract to fully understand Primerica.
    New agents to the industry have no clue about industry products and compensation. That's another reason they don't want or can't attract career agents. If a career agent does join, I can guarantee it isn't for the products, it's because they see the system. For the person who can just work the system at PFS, they can potentially make some great income. Just don't ask too many questions and stay away from message boards. When you post on message boards at some point you will have to look up facts and do comparisons and then when you hear something said at a business briefing an alarm will go off.

  169. John 11/21/2008 at 11:32 am

    Mr. Observer the simplistic approach to sales works because most agents do not fully explain how whole life or universal life works.

    It is the industry that has made it so easy for Primerica agents to go out and explain simple concepts and earn someones business and trust.

    If whole life agents truly explained how there products worked most middle income families would not buy them. However, the majority own this product. That is why Primerica is so successful.

    I have family members who have worked for the biggest insurance companies out there. Sure enough they are told to push whole life because that is the core of there business.

    That doesn't seem like they care for the families interest. Its all about corporate profit and the agents profit.

    Who cares if you have all of this knowledge on fixed indexed products if you are still going to sell whole life to middle income families. That's why primerica has succeded. The more of this stuff you sell, the longer and more successful they will be.

    Let's set the record straight. I have a number of friends that are brokers and friends that work in marketing positions for several insurance companies.

    They will take brokers to concerts, hockey games, trips etc if brokers continue to push there products.

    Certain companies compensate differently as well. That probably explains why so many brokers push terrible performing seg funds from certain companies.

    If you and your agents do whats right for the majority of middle income families then Primerica would not have grown to what it is today an A+ company as per AMBEST.com.

    Thanks,

    John

  170. LSM Insurance 11/21/2008 at 12:37 pm

    Hi John,

    Thanks for the note. I can't speak for Observer but I don't think he is claiming that all independent brokers are doing a good job. There are good and bad brokers and I'm assuming there are and bad Primerica agents.

    As for being influenced to place business with a paticular carrier by way of gifts trips etc. All insurance companies including Primerica have incentive programs to push their agents to work harder. Most sales organizations do.

    I've met hundreds of top independent brokers over the last 15 plus years. The vast majority are not influenced by these variables or the commission from any given sale. A good insurance brokers realizes this business is not a sprint but a marathon and your best opportunity for long term success is doing a good job for your clients. The word spreads quickly if you don't.

    In my opinion part of doing the best for people is given them the widest variety of choice.

    Regards ... Lorne

  171. Robert 11/21/2008 at 2:31 pm

    Lorne,

    My friend, you have missed the point that John is trying to convey.
    A whole life policy would pay the face amount upon the eventuality of death. The premium has been paying for both insurance and savings since day 1. If you put some reasoning into this, you would ask where your savings are and not just the face amount. It is in every case that the savings portion is forfeited. This is madness!!!
    Had I taken out a term policy for the same value and simply placed the difference under my mattress, my loved one would get the face value along with a pile of money.

    However you break it down and no matter your qualification of expertise in this industry. There is no reason to sell this policy to anyone!

    If you work for an insurance company and are falling behind compared to other agents in your company because you choose to sell term, you would soon get a stiff talking to by your employer with regards to your numbers. I would suspect that the obvious would come next... Commission vs. termination.

  172. LSM Insurance 11/21/2008 at 2:59 pm

    Robert - thanks for your comment but it is flawed.

    This was mentioned in several posts.

    Thanks for the comment. In reference to cash value on a life insurance policy it depends which type of Permenent plan. On a Universal Life policy with a Level Cost of Insurance any investment portion is paid out on top of the face amount and with sum companies i.e Empire Life and Manulife is accesible without any fees from Day 1.

    On a Whole Life Life policy a portion of the cash value is a guaranteed cash value which the insured can access on surrender on borrow up to 90%. The cash value is a return of the excess premium needed to keep the premiums level for life.

    None of brokers have quotas and they all do the majority do very well. I have seen a lot of people succeed and fail in this business. If you have a good attitude, an efficient prospecting system and treat people right - successful results will follow. Regards … Lorne

  173. Observer 11/21/2008 at 4:57 pm

    John: Let me say it again. I've been there. I heard it before. Your concentrating on Perm. products. I'm talking having the ability to do the same thing and more outside of Primerica compared to inside Primerica.

    John you say "I have family members who have worked for the biggest insurance companies out there. Sure enough they are told to push whole life because that is the core of there business.

    That doesn’t seem like they care for the families interest. Its all about corporate profit and the agents profit."

    **Do you ever compare your Term products against the competition? Couldn't the same statement be used against PFS?

  174. Jammer 11/22/2008 at 2:39 am

    I don't understand why single-out Primerica in your article when there are other company out there that people should second guess before even dealing with one of their agent or broker.

    I wont name names but I am on a legall battle right now with one insurance company and an agent right now for mis-represneting their product that they sold me. Their suppost to be one of the biggest insurance campany in north-america with big offices in major cities in the US and Canada. They Use to have five offices in the city i live in now their down to one after all the law-suite that their in right now.

    Should you be targeting this kind of campany (mis-leading/mis-represnting).should you be warning people about agent and brokers who sell wrong type of insurance to people and seems to be nice to the people on the first three years of the policy that was bought from them just to avoid the charge back on terms that was surrender or laps.

    most if not all agent and broker are in this business for the money and nothing else. They found something that people will buy.And all they see is dollar sign...

  175. LSM Insurance 11/22/2008 at 9:45 am

    Hi Jammer,

    Thanks for your comment. I agree consumers have to very careful when picking an agent or broker - a good place to start is ask for references and credentials.

    I disagree that most agents/brokers are in "the business for money and nothing else." There are definetly some bad apples in the industry but as stated in several posts above successful brokers treat their careers as a marathon and not a sprint. Our brokers and many other leaders in the industry want to earn a good living but they realize this is best achieved in the long term but placing the consumers interests first and delivering service beyond their expectations.

    The testomonials below support this value proposition.

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  176. amanda 11/22/2008 at 9:51 am

    great testimonisals..see thats the great thing about the web. everyone always puts up the good things. i can guarantee you that not everyone thinks the way those couple of people do or else everyone would be in your financial group. you are one of the people saying we are only out to get peoples money. what are you working for. you work to help people and to make money. money is what is making this world go round. a mcdonalds employee would not be one if it wasnt for that one factor.

    i can tell you for a fact ive been in this company as a client for a long time. i just finished taking my courses, and i can say for one, i havent got paid a dime yet and you know what even if i never got paid a dime, i would still do it because i know what primerica has done for me. i know that i will with them long after i retire because that is how amazing this company has changed my life

  177. LSM Insurance 11/22/2008 at 10:38 am

    Thanks for your comment. There are actually over 30 testomonials on the site and many more available upon request. Our clients range from doctors, lawyers and accountants to machinists and landscapers. LSM Insurance was also recently featured on City TV and the Globe and Mail. (the video clip is below)

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    Having been this business for over 15 years - I can safely say virtually all successful agents/brokers want to make a good income. This is achieved by having an effective prospecting system, working productively and exceeeding client expectations.

    Simple things like banking, address and beneficiary changes can be onerous tasks when clients are shipped to a 1 800 #. Our brokers and other top brokers realize it is a lot easier and more productive to keep an existing client happy than to try and acquire a new one.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  178. Observer 11/22/2008 at 2:29 pm

    Just as a side note, Primerica's agents aren't totally innocent in all this. They have a long history of attacking other agents/companies. Many of them feel if your not a PFS agent you sell whole life to everyone.

    Jammer ask:

    "Should you be targeting this kind of campany (mis-leading/mis-represnting).should you be warning people about agent and brokers who sell wrong type of insurance to people and seems to be nice to the people on the first three years of the policy that was bought from them just to avoid the charge back on terms that was surrender or laps."

    ***That's exactly what we are doing. If something isn't factual the PFS agents who post here do have the option of rebuttal. People can get competing quotes and read the agent agreement..

  179. esteban 11/22/2008 at 4:40 pm

    After reading quite a lot of these messages I can see that most of the disagreements are heated and quite focused on the system or methods of sales. I am interested in joining PFS sales team. I am doing so because I have a full time job and would like to make extra money without leaving this job. I feel that I am quite qualified in my knowledge of many products because of my interest in them and because of my many years of being an informed consumer. This will obviously be reinforced by new training and licensing which will now make me a rookie in the field. I am sure all companies have rookies in the sales force so I will accept being the target of comments pointing out my inexperience. As I embark on this new venture however, I am concerned mostly that the products I sell will perform as specified. If term is the right product for the customer and the customer finds the price acceptable then are the policies comparable or are they flawed in any way? Is Primerica a solid company? Do they have a good track record of paying the claims? Is there any reason to believe that claims may be contested in the initial period more than any other companies? Having seen all the comments flying back and forth I am sincerely interested so that I know what kind of product I am selling.

  180. amanda 11/22/2008 at 5:22 pm

    that is an innaccurate statement we as a primerica company know that all financial groups sell term and whole life. we only sell one because we know that that specific one is the best for clients and we have the knowledge and educatio to back up that statement. i would rather put my savings in a term policy knowing that the money i put into it wont be out into someone elses pocket. whole life insurance what you put into it you do not get back from it.

  181. LSM Insurance 11/22/2008 at 5:29 pm

    Hi Esteban,

    Thanks for the comments. I have seen no evidence that Primerica is better or worse at paying claims than any other insurance companies.

    You will have some obstacles to overcome as a captive agent. Much of your success will depend on having the right attitude and an effective prospecting system. If you are told to rely on selling friends and family it will be a tough go. You may find the attached link useful link to lsminsurance.ca

    Good luck! Regards ... Lorne

  182. LSM Insurance 11/22/2008 at 5:38 pm

    Hi Amanda,

    As stated several times before a "one size fit all statement is not a good fit for the consumer." It is quivalent to saying everyone should buy a Dividend Fund. Each persons situation has to be looked at individually.

    Please note your understanding of Whole Life insurance is also incorrect. On a Whole Life policy a portion of the cash value is a guaranteed cash value which the insured can access on surrender on borrow up to 90%. The cash value is a return of the excess premium needed to keep the premiums level for life.

  183. John 11/22/2008 at 8:18 pm

    Mr. Observer,

    If you can find me a cheaper rate then $60/month for a 30 year term at $250k for my wife and myself then I will do business with you or Lorne.

    My wife and I are 34 years old and yes we are in excellent shape.

    Please let me know.

    Thanks,
    John

  184. John 11/22/2008 at 8:35 pm

    Mr. Observer,

    I just found out AIG does a 30 year term.

    Would you want to sell or purchase a policy from AIG? I know I wouldn't.

    AM BEST.com will tell everyone that Primerica is an A+ company.

    Thanks,
    John

  185. LSM Insurance 11/23/2008 at 9:33 am

    Hi John,

    Thanks for the note. You can compare insurance premium chanrges among the different companies
    at link to lsminsurance.ca

    Unity Life and AIG would both offer lower rates for you and your wife than Primerica - but you always wanted to verify careful before replacing an existing life insurance policy. Please see attached. The AIG Term 30 plan is renewable to 100 and both plans are convertible.

    Regarding AIGs financial difficulties their Canadian life insurance division will likely be sold to a new suitor shortly.

    AIG is also a Member Company of Assuris. Assuris was founded in 1990 and is a not for profit organization that protects Canadian policyholders in the event that their life insurance company should fail. Assuris covers 100% of the death benefit on policies $200,000 or less. On policies over $200,000 they cover the greater of 85% of the original face amount or $200,000. Assuris also cover 100% of life insurance cash values up to $100,000.

  186. Observer 11/23/2008 at 1:53 pm

    John: AIG is the Parent company of American General. Citigroup is the parent company of Primerica. Do you see something in common. The insurance companies are seperate from the parents.
    Now with that being said, as an independent agent if a client does not wish to go with AG, there's other companies to offer. What does an independent contractor who in most cases is part-time who is contracted with Primerica do if a client has reservations with doing business with a company under the Citigroup umbrella?

  187. John 11/23/2008 at 3:35 pm

    Thank-you for the update on AIG. However, when they are finally sold to perhaps Manulife there may some changes to how they operate.

    AIG would not be an option for my family including the Assuris guarantee.

    What about unity life? Are they guaranteed to 100 and how do they compare with rates?

    Once again I'm not looking for anything convertable since I do not believe in whole as an option for the majority of Canadians.

    Whole Life is not a good product. How can borrowing your money at 5 to 8% be something good?
    while at the same time over paying in premiums and not getting your cash when the policy owner passes on.

    Thanks,

    John

  188. LSM Insurance 11/23/2008 at 4:54 pm

    Hi John,

    Thanks for the comment. You are misunderstanding how a Whole Life policy works (please see 4 posts up)

    Unity Life's Term 30 rates are also lower than Primerica at most age brackets including your. You can check our quote calculator link to lsminsurance.ca .

    The Unity Life plan is renewable to age 85 - but the renewal premiums on both the Unity Life and the Primerica policies are through the roof.

    Unity Life's Term 30 plan is also convertible to a Term 100 plan. Best Regards ... Lorne

  189. LSM Insurance 11/23/2008 at 5:05 pm

    It should be noted that AIG, Primerica and Unity Life are member companies of Assuris. A following listing of companies can be found at the link below
    link to assuris.ca

    We also have a very interesting article on our site regarding what happens if your life insurance company goes bankrupt. Please see link below. link to lsminsurance.ca

    LSM was also recently interviewed by the Toronto Sun on this topic. The article can be found below. link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  190. Observer 11/24/2008 at 2:47 am

    John there are no requirements that anyone converts their term to a perm. product. Let's say a person takes their policy to end of term.
    well right before it is to cancel they find out they have a health issue. Well in many cases when a health issue comes up more money goes out. With the conversion option the person can lock in a face amount and premium. It's just an option. to make it even better with some companies you don't have to convert the full face amount and the rates are set at the risk of the original policy. Look at the renewal rates on some Term policies.

    If converting is an issue just don't do it. Just understand it is a good option to have. As for borrowing the cash value, let me stress it again. It's not the clients money. the cash value is there to have the policy perform as designed. If it's taken out of the policy the insurance company doesn't have use of that money anymore so that's what they charge interest on it. It's the companies money, not the clients. That was one of theings I learned when I left Primerica and did some outside research.

    One more point. Different companies underwrite differently. So Primerica might rate you standard when another on may rate preferred. How many rates classifications does PFS have?

  191. Robert 11/24/2008 at 5:42 pm

    Lorne
    Are you suggesting that Primerica is not guaranteed by Assuris? If so, I would double check your sources.
    As for the reasons of converting and renewable plans, what ages would the majority of the publc be at this stage? Why would you need more insurance if you have your financial house in order? Is this a good strategy for retirement?

    The concept of insurance for most people are a bit of a black art. They do not need it if the kids are all out and if they have a propper nest egg. This is what you can leave behind as your inheritence. Instead, people see insurance as something they must have until they die so that they can feel that all that money they pumpped is given back and that's what they want to leave behind.
    this also backfires when they are on this earth longer than they expected, leaving them in financial hardship. They then put extra burden on family members.

    This is wrong thinking! It is a service you buy in case of emergency only! Once it is used, it is gone, like buying car insurance or gasoline. Investments for retirement should be seperate.

  192. LSM Insurance 11/24/2008 at 6:06 pm

    Hi Robert,

    Thanks but you misread my post "It should be noted that AIG, Primerica and Unity Life are member companies of Assuris. A following listing of companies can be found at the link below http://www.assuris.ca.

    As stated in multiple posts a one size fits all solution is not a good fit from the consumer.

    The following is from Investment Funds Institure of Canada an unbiased third party. Many of these needs can only be solved with a Permanent policy i.e a Term 100, Universal Life or Whole Life policy:

    “The following is a list of some common situations for which insurance can be used:

    To protect a family financially. Life insurance on the life of an income earner can provide funds to replace his or her income in the event of death. The death benefit provides financial support for his or her survivors, alleviating the financial hardships they may otherwise encounter.

    To fund a trust fund. Anyone who is supporting a financially dependent child or adult can purchase life insurance on his or her own life. In the event that the caregiver dies, the guaranteed death benefit can be used to create a trust fund to provide continued support for the dependent child or adult.

    To pay off debt. Mortgages, bank loans, and certain investment strategies can create sizeable debt. Life insurance can guarantee that if the borrower dies, there will be sufficient funds available to pay off these liabilities.

    To pay income taxes. Many self-employed individuals and professionals pay their income taxes quarterly. Life insurance can provide funds to pay outstanding taxes if the individual dies.

    To pay capital gains tax. When an individual dies, taxes must be paid on the difference between the cost price and the market value of their capital property, such as a cottage, investment portfolio, or rental property. The individual’s heirs may not have the funds available to pay these taxes, and as a result may be forced to sell the assets. Life insurance can provide funds that can be used to pay these taxes.

    To fund bequests. It is the wish of many people to leave a cash bequest to a charity, family members, or friends. Life insurance can provide funds for these bequests in a tax efficient manner.”

  193. Robert 11/25/2008 at 3:49 pm

    Lorne,

    I don’t believe you have answered my questions in the right context that I have asked them. Like most typical professional and all politician have run around the issue. Sorry to lump you in with them…

    These points: “To protect a family financially”, “To fund a trust fund”, “To pay off debt”, “To pay income taxes”, “To pay capital gains tax”, “To fund bequests”, could all be taken care of with the correct amount of term insurance before the client retires and still have dependants. Term will have a higher face amount compared to any whole life or universal life in relation to an equal premium. Why is it such a hard concept to grasp for agents or brokers of most companies?

  194. LSM Insurance 11/25/2008 at 4:07 pm

    Hi Robert,

    Thanks but you are misunderstanding how a Term policy works. Term insurance covers a "temporary need" hence the name Term insurance. These are Permanent needs with the exclusion of a mortgage and many seniors are now saddled with mortgages into their later years.

    To simply say you can buy more Term coverage for a given premium is a complete misunderstanding of how the policies work. You can buy more Term 5 coverage for a given premium than Term 30 coverage but that might not be what a client needs.

    Regards ... Lorne

  195. Robert 11/25/2008 at 5:22 pm

    Lorne,
    "Term insurance covers a “temporary need” hence the name Term insurance."

    You are correct sir.
    Insurance should only be a temporay need if they had been advised correctly earlier on to "invest the difference" effectively. This then will provide protection while their investments grow to provide for their living needs in their senior years. This also includes mortgages, if any.

    Cheers,

  196. Observer 11/25/2008 at 5:30 pm

    Robert you say "Term will have a higher face amount compared to any whole life or universal life in relation to an equal premium. Why is it such a hard concept to grasp for agents or brokers of most companies?"

    Something to consider is your only thinking of face amount and premium. Others may be thinking comcept or why the policy is needed. If a person knows they would like to have a guaranteed amount available at death which will do that job? That's perm. If they need a certain amount of coverage for a certain amount of time Term fits. The product has to fit the need.

    Yes I know you can say buy term and invest the difference, but the person is look for a guaranteed solution. Perm. products can be designed to pay out at a guaranteed time. Yes some even go to age 121..

    Buy Term And Invest The Difference is a great concept, but I remember in Forbes, Art Williams and Sandy Weill were in the magazine as billionaires. They may still be, but at that time Citi stock was at about $50.00 a share, at this moment is hovering around $6.00...To take it close to main street, people are scared to open their financial statements to see the value of their accounts. There are some people who did buy whole life who are glad they purchased that whole life policy years ago. Especially if it's from a strong mutual company.

  197. LSM Insurance 11/25/2008 at 8:27 pm

    Thanks for comments. We have seen an increasing number of visitors asking about life insurance as a risk free way of building wealth.

    I'm very excited about the attached Life Insurance Internal Rate of Return calculator (IRR) we recently added to the site. link to lsminsurance.ca .

    It's a great tool for measuring the IRR of Term 100 and Non Participating Whole Life plans.

    Regards ... Lorne

  198. Jordan 12/01/2008 at 9:49 pm

    What is the difference between Universal insurance and Whole Life insurance?

    Do both policies have a cash value and how can I access it?

  199. LSM Insurance 12/01/2008 at 10:19 pm

    Hi Jordan,

    Thanks for the question.

    Whole Life policies can be particpating or non particpating. Particpating policies pay a dividend which can flucuate. Non Participating policies do not pay a dividend and are generally fully guranateed contracts. Both non particpating and particpating Whole Life policies have a a guaranteed cash value which the insured can access on surrender on borrow up to 90%. The cash value is a return of the excess premium needed to keep the premiums level for life.

    Universal Life insurance offers a more unbundled form of Permanent life insurance. Universal Life policies can offer multiple cost of insurance (COI) structures; increasing or level Term 100 COI. On a level Term 100 COI plan any premiums paid above the minimum premium go into a cash value account which is paid on top of your death benefit tax free.

    Be careful the cash value account can have surrender charges in the first 10 policy years but some companies (Empire Life and Manulife) allow you to access the money from year 1. The investment can go in a guaranteed investment account or an equity based account and funds grow tax sheltered so long as your contributions are below the maximum allowable tax exempt premium

    Please let me know if I can help further or feel free to visit our Universal Life quote request page link to lsminsurance.ca

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  200. Litisha 12/05/2008 at 9:31 pm

    I am a 51 year old female non smoker.

    What would $300,000 Term 10 cost me and how do I know if I qualify for preferred rates?

    Thanks you.

  201. LSM Insurance 12/05/2008 at 10:29 pm

    Hi Litisha,

    Thanks for your comment.

    I will send you a seperate email with quotes from insurance carriers accross Canada. You can also get an instant quote from the attached link link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regarding your question on preferred rates. I can not verify this for sure until you submit an application. But generally speaking individuals who are in very good health and have very good family health history qualify for preferred rates.

    All the best! Lorne

  202. tana 12/05/2008 at 11:30 pm

    Just a serious thought regarding all the companies you give great regard to ie canada life , sun life amonst the many in n. america. most of your comments come from actual insurance agents. This so called professional industry has more class action lawsuits STEALING consmers money.People you need to do your home work why would any one support an industry who would sell products that steal.Math does not lie!Ask Suzy Orman, W5, Buy term invest the difference,just a thought.The uninformed market needs to compare apples to apples.i am now a client of primerica, we did our homework, had 5 different agents sit and the only company to give a complete plan was primerica and was completely free no obligation.The other 4 agents tried to either sell us universal or whole life.So phone a regulator, AM BEST, STANDARD&POOR we did.Primerica has more agents than the entire industry combined.Get a copy of LIMRA comparing primerca vs the rest.You will be amazed. Call IMSA regarding ethical practices,amazing they have the highest standards.As clients we got very educated,they have the same licences as the rest of the industry so they recruit who doesn't.A final thought I met the founder Art Williams,intense passionate man we liked his pile theory his pile is bigger than anyone in the world from the insurance industry as in Forbes richest people.thank you primerica for your help.

  203. Observer 12/06/2008 at 2:52 am

    Do any Canadian companies offer retutn of premium term?

  204. LSM Insurance 12/06/2008 at 10:12 am

    Hi Tana,

    Thanks for the comment. But I'm having a hard understanding the point of your post.

    I have seen no evidence from LIMRA or any other organizations which measures the number of complaints or lawsuits against captive organization vs. independent organizations.

    The points you made didn't address the fact consumer is better off:

    1. Being able to compare -apple with apple comparisons- from different insurance carriers. That way he/she can pick the plan that provides the best value

    2. Working with a full time person. In order for an insurance advisor to provide optimal customer service, they need to stay abreast of industry changes – meaning a full-time commitment to the business.

    3. Working with an advisor who provides a full range of insurance solutions. In many instances, term insurance may be the best solution, but in many instances a Permanent soltion is needed.

    A complete well balanced approach to insurance planning is supported by all unbiased third party organizations. Examples previously given were the Investment Funds Institute of Canada and The Million Dollar Round Table.

    Regards ... Lorne

  205. LSM Insurance 12/06/2008 at 10:16 am

    In Response to Observers question (two post up) I am not aware of any companies in Canada offering a Return of Premium Term plan. RBC was offering a Return of Premium plan a few years ago but it is no longer available.

    There are a several companies offering Return of Premium Critical Illness plans.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  206. Observer 12/06/2008 at 5:55 pm

    Hello Tara. I'm glad your happy with Primerica. Something you may wish to consider is they are there to sell you products just like any other company. I don't know if you know this, but industry wide only about 2% of Term policies go to claim. That's why term is priced the way it is.
    If you look at the current economy and many savings accounts have lost value as with real estate values do you think most people will not need life insurance long term?

    Here's something else to consider. I don't know if Life settlements are available in Canada, but let's say you do invest the difference and you won't neeed your PFS term policy anymore what are your options? You see there's a market for Life Settlements. That's where having the option of converting to a perm. product may be a good option to have. You see institutions do buy peoples Life insurance policies. They buy the policy with a locked in face amount and premium. Well the way to do that with a term policy is to convert it to a perm. policy. Did your Primerica agent mention that to you? Did he/she go over the pros of having a convertible term policy. What if you develop a health issue at renewal time? Did you look at renewal premiums? There's more considerations, but Primerica is out to push product just like everyone else. Nothing is for free.

  207. LSM Insurance 12/07/2008 at 12:23 am

    Observer - thanks for for the comment.

    You make several very good points. Life settlements are not really any option in Canada.

    As for pushing products - the insurance industry like most sales related fields are commission based. But succesful brokers do not need to worry about the commission from a single sale. Long term revenue in the business flows from doing a good job for people and exceeding client expectations.

    I gave the analogy in a previous post that top advisors realize the business is not a sprint but rather a marathon.

    Regards ... Lorne

  208. observer 12/08/2008 at 12:24 am

    The reason I post as I did is because at this point I have come to the understanding that Primerica has their products and their way of doing business. With their marketing system they have to factor that into agent compensation and considering their mindset is a term policy along with a simple savings program for the masses they have to price their product to be profitable and to compensate the agents. As we know companies will pay agents 100% plus because they know about how long a policy will stay on the books and what amount of time they need to recover their cost.

    What i'm trying to show is for what they do and the market they are going after, Primerica doesn't have to be the cheapest, have the lowest fees or offer many different products. They do what works for them. It's not about the agents. it's not about the cleints, It's about the company. It's about selling the products with a smoke screen of a mission. Good or bad, agree or disagree, it works for them...Think about it. contract an agent. Get them to go sell to their warm market. Then if they quit per contract don't let them take the clients they brought in (on their expense) or the people they recruited to the company. It's genius...Think about it. If an agent gets too big and maybe thinks of leaving, they can't unless they want to start all over again. Genius..

    Considering I was once there and now can look from the outsied in, I can say this. Most of the agents don't know what they don't know. Just look at how many of them think they are Primerica. An independent contractor is in business for themself. At Primerica most agents loyalty starts with the company. Yes even when considering they are independent contractors. Genius..

  209. LSM Insurance 12/08/2008 at 9:31 am

    Thanks for your note. I can't comment on Primerica's business model. This blog mainly focuses on whether Primerica policies are a good value for the consumer. In fairness most captive agency systems share the same flaws as the Primerica system. Primerica does have the added hurdle of a more limited product portfolio.

    Regards ... Lorne

  210. observer 12/08/2008 at 1:30 pm

    The way they see it is their goal is to leave the client in a better financial position after they leave. I can understand that, but to then throw in that everyone else is out just to rip everyone off is very misleading. If a family is under insured and they come in and increase their coverage to better protect the family I would say yes they give value. Now compared to what other companies have to offer, me personally I couldn't sell the PFS products after I learned about the products other companies had to offer and agent compensation.

    Yet there's always the quote that only 2-3% of term policies ever go to claim but death is 100%.
    Which kinds of makes a good argument for a low cost term policy with a conversion feature. When looking at PFS other independent agents can say to an extent, "Buy this term and invest the difference" from the savings you were spending at Primerica. LOL..I think i'm going to use that when I come across a PFS policy..Hey apples to apples comparison across the kitchen table..

    So value yes. If the client doesn't have anything else to compare..

  211. Damon 12/09/2008 at 7:38 pm

    Lets see...

    1. "Primerica employs a "one size fits all" philosophy. In many instances, term insurance may be the best solution, but what about when insurance protection is needed for the insured's lifetime?"

    Well, the last policy I anylyzed, if the client replaced her cash value that last till 100 with our pilcy that was going to last to 65 and invested the difference, she would be self insured at age 65. In case you don't know what that means, she would have saved an amount equal to her life insurance face value, and she could quit paying for life insurance and depend on the CASH she has. By the way, her previous policy would have taken until age 100 to do the same at a much higher cost. AND, having that amount at age 65, if she chose to keep it in an investment account, it would keep growing and end up being over 16 times the value by age 100 as her cash value. (All of this at 12% interest)

    2. Primerica's term insurance policies are very expensive. At the time this article was written, a 50-year-old male non-smoker could get $200,000 of Term 10 coverage for $38.79 per month with Unity Life; the same coverage would cost $65.84 per month with Primerica. One reason for this is that Primerica uses a multi-level marketing distribution model – the independent brokerage model employed by other insurance companies has far fewer layers, which translates into a much more competitive cost structure. Primerica has improved it’s pricing in certain age brackets and is one of the few companies to offer 25 and 30 year Term policies.

    My policy was only 15% more a month. But I could renew it for 3600/yr at the end of the 30yr term. My other policy was over 15k/yr by the end of that 10 years. Your right, they are not the cheapest. Whould you buy your life insurance at walmart for rock bottom prices if they offered it?

    3. Primerica's term policies are non-convertible, and since they do not offer a permanent life insurance policy in their product lineup, the insured would have to look elsewhere should a permanent policy be needed down the road. (Wouldn't you rather be self insured? See above.)Furthermore, should the insured's health change, he/she would probably be out of luck.

    No, a policy may be renewed with another term policy with no medical at a very modest cost. My policy with AIG had this option. Except it was anually renewable term (instead of a 10 year term) that was over 10,000$/yr towards age 70, and over 50,000$/yr at age 85. Although none of this matters because we would prefer people to be self insured by the end of their term.

    4. Primerica is the only insurance company that encourages its advisors to work part-time. I wouldn't want a part-time accountant preparing my tax return and I wouldn't want a part-time lawyer preparing my will. The financial service industry is in a constant state of change – in order for an advisor to provide optimal customer service, they need to stay abreast of industry changes – meaning a full-time commitment to the business.

    I really would like to know, what industry changes are you talking about? The last time I checked, our finacial plans (simply put) showed people how much they needed to save to retire when they want with the amount they want, it showed them their life insurance needs, regardless of which policy they bought, and it showed them ways to accelerate their debt payoff! Oh, BTW, the only cost is that if you are happy with the services provided, we ask you to share the benfit of what we do with people you know. Thats business.

    5. Primerica employs a captive sales force; their agents can only sell Primerica life insurance products. This places their agents in a compromising position – they are not able to shop the marketplace in order to provide their clients with the best possible value.

    Are you seriously saying that prudential agents will sell metlife products? Or if I go to allstate they will give me a policy from farmers if it is better?

    Primerica offers a unique service. They offer a plethora of good services all in one place. They look at as big of finacial picture as possible and attempt to prive sound solutions in as many places as possible with all things in mind.

    There are problems with primericas system, but one thing that is not a problem is if you help people, and get other people to do the same, you can make alot of money.

    Damon.

  212. LSM Insurance 12/09/2008 at 8:21 pm

    Hi Damon,

    Thanks for your note. I agree other captive companies share the same flaw as Primerica in that their advisors can not shop the market for the best value.

    As for your Wallmart anology. I disagree if two companies offer Term policies with identical features and similar levels of financial stability the lower price plan offers a better value.

    Why pay an extra 15% if you don't have to? On larger face amounts this can translate into thousands of lost dollars.

    The benefits of Permanent insurance have been stated into multiple posts. An advisor who offers an incomplete product shelf and does not keep up with industry changes (look at the home page of our site and you will see changes occur ever month)is doing his clients a diservice.

  213. Observer 12/10/2008 at 4:35 pm

    Comparing Primerica to Prudential is kind of misleading. Prudential has more product offerings. Primerica is basically target marketed to people who just need coverage and a side account. That's it. I still can't get an answer if Primerica sells disability yet? Not waiver of premium.

    As for the Primerica system there are no problems with it, it works great for them.

    Damon says: "BTW, the only cost is that if you are happy with the services provided, we ask you to share the benefit of what we do with people you know. That's business."

    Compare the difference in policy premiums and fees for other services which they can get from other providers and then say there is no cost. Primerica factors in a cost for everything.

  214. wes 12/10/2008 at 7:21 pm

    Primerica does not offer disability. Primerica only does term because it's the best for the client. I agree with the statement about why pay more for a policy "if it's the same", but as everyone knows or they don't know Primerica's policy's have more features and more benefits than other term policy's. Besides if they've been doing only term for the past 31yrs, wouldn't you think they'd have it figured out? I also looked at 3rd quarter earnings Prudential lost over 108 million dollars. Primerica made just over 119 million. Hmm They must be doing something right if they continue to make money even in a down market. When was the last time you sat down with a Primerica Rep?, and was open minded about it. The numbers don't lie. Wes

  215. wes 12/10/2008 at 7:26 pm

    I keep reading that a person needs a policy till there 100 or permanent policy. When there term is up then there out of luck if the insured is not healthy or has a disorder or cancer or something. That's not true. You can get a custom 4 policy for an end of term.

  216. LSM Insurance 12/10/2008 at 8:39 pm

    Hi Wes,

    Thanks for your comments. Are you saying "people do not need disability insurance." If so I completely disagree - disability insurance is a crucial component of insurance plannong.

    In terms of Primerica offering better features on their Term policies than other insurance carriers I disagree - Manulife as an example has several features that are not available on Primerica's Term policies e.g. a children's Term rider that allows the child to convert up to 25 times the face amount without a medical. Primerica Term policies are also not convertible which is a huge drawback.

    In terms of Primerica's profitability I have never questioned the profitability of their business model. Term 100 coverage and Universal Life - Term 100 policies are lapse supported policies. Meaning the insurance company only turns a profit if the insured cancel his policy.

    The thing to keep in mind is the agent/broker should be placing the clients interests ahead of the insurance company.

    To date I have seen no evidence Primerica offers a Term 100 policy. I've checked Compulife and Lifeguide. If someone has a sample contract please feel free to email me at lorne@lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  217. wes 12/11/2008 at 6:23 pm

    I didn't say Primerica doesn't believe in disability someone asked if they do it. I answered the question then i put a period after the fact. that means end of statement. BTW If you need insurance till your 100. Your financial planner s...... stinks. Everyone knows you only carry insurance as long as you need it.

  218. LSM Insurance 12/11/2008 at 6:53 pm

    Thanks for the post. We are in agreement disability insurance is a crucial component of insurance planning.

    I disagree with your assertion that nobody requires Permanent insurance as stated in numerous posts Permanent insurance solves a variety of insurance needs.

    As illustated in the attached calculator it also produces a very attractive rate of return when compared with other risk free investments.

    link to lsminsurance.ca.

    Regards ... Lorne

  219. observer 12/12/2008 at 1:34 am

    What if you have a client who has a parent who has some funds sitting in an account desiginated for someone when they die. Would you recommend term or would you even consider a single premium permanent product?

    Primerica says BTIV so they can be financially independent, well how do you assist them at that point? what product do you have for them? with that being said, as always shouldn't they just get the cheapest term with a the most stable company available. Isn't the goal to cover death, so what are the need for "other features"? Consider you do such a great job for the client, why does the term product even have a renewal feature?

    When Art Williams was runnig AL Williams he had a sales force of over 200,000 strong. The business has beeen in business for over 30 years. Where are all the financially independent people? What about the former agents and their families? At some point you have have to sit back and think and ask questions.

    If a person has a need for life Insurance at renewal time it's time to shop carriers. If they have health issues, it's time to consider conversion options.

    As for Primerica making money that's not in question. Something else to consider is from what google news is saying the buyer backed out..Do you ever wonder why no one is stepping up to the plate to buy Primerica? It may not happen, but Citi as the owner can just shut them down if they see fit. As a business person you should be asking questions.

    As for the issue about disability i'm sure you agree it's a important subject to bring up to clients, but you can't. You don't sell it. So do you really have the clients best interest when you sit down with them? No, you are there to sell Primerica products, Period. So if Primerica tells you price is only an issue when there's an absence of value or something like that you have to take it in hook line and sinker. Sell the products, but understand it's just sales. One product can not fit all.

  220. observer 12/12/2008 at 4:33 pm

    Here's something I just thought about. Many of us know that the Primerica products are "competitive". We also know there are other carriers who have lower cost products, which would give consumers the ability to sock away more for savings. Well here's a basic question for all the PFS agents who profess their program. How many people do you know who don't need any life insurance? How many people do you know who are totally living off of the interest of their savings? Remember your target market is middle income people. ALW/Primerica is over 30 plus years old now so there should be some sort of track record. The system is working for producing income for PFS, but what about the past clients? Has the program of BTIV worked?

  221. Damon 12/16/2008 at 6:48 pm

    Kudos for being active in responding to peoples comments without attacking people when you disagree.

    I would like to respond to some things:

    "As for your Wallmart anology. I disagree if two companies offer Term policies with identical features and similar levels of financial stability the lower price plan offers a better value."

    I agree completely. Except many of the products at walmart are not identical, even for name brands. Many name brand manufacturers make cheaper products specifically for walmart. If you want the cheapest, go and search high and low for the cheapest. Primerica is actually the cheapest sometimes. But if you want term insurance that is simple and set up with the interest of the insured in mind, Primerica, along with others, has a great product.

    "Why pay an extra 15% if you don’t have to? On larger face amounts this can translate into thousands of lost dollars."

    Again, your absolutely right. But again, this comes down to weather your buy the cheapest with all the problems that the cheapes MIGHT bring. Or do you spend a little extra to be sure things are taken care of. On a 750$/yr policy, over thiry years, an extra 15% translates into about 3,400$. But when you are already spending over 22,000$, I'd say (this is an opinion) its a small price to pay to make sure you don't have things like war clauses, or a skyrocketing price when you decide to keep your pilicy at the end of the term becuase of your two strokes in the last 5 years.

    "An advisor who offers an incomplete product shelf and does not keep up with industry changes (look at the home page of our site and you will see changes occur ever month)is doing his clients a diservice."

    Primerica offices hold weekly meetings. if there is something about the industry that changes, thos things are gone over in such meetings. Also, there are compliance meetings, and continuing education classes we all must take as liscensed agents.

    "In terms of Primerica offering better features on their Term policies than other insurance carriers I disagree - Manulife as an example has several features that are not available on Primerica’s Term policies e.g. a children’s Term rider that allows the child to convert up to 25 times the face amount without a medical. Primerica Term policies are also not convertible which is a huge drawback."

    I don't know about canadian policies, but Primerica in the states does have this exact feature.

    "Primerica says BTIV so they can be financially independent, well how do you assist them at that point? what product do you have for them?"

    We deal with many investment firms to facilitate this need for people. And not only that, many invesment firms will not allow you to set up an account with SUPPORT unless you have lots of money to invest. For many, its tens of thousands of dollars. For us, if you got 25 dollars amonth to invest, we can set some thing up, and we will still talk to you if you have questions.

    "With that being said, as always shouldn’t they just get the cheapest term with a the most stable company available."

    I have a question. Do you take you car to the cheapest mechanic in town when it needs work? If you do, then maybe our products are not for you.

    That being said, if you are in a situation where you need life insurance, then you need our other services as well because you have financial oblications. And there is NO other company that offers the degree of services and products that Primerica does to make sure such financial obligations are taken care of, even if you don't die.

  222. Damon 12/16/2008 at 7:03 pm

    Now there was another comment that I just don't get still.

    "The benefits of Permanent insurance have been stated into multiple posts."

    It has been stated that term insurance is temporary insurance and THAT is the problem with it. But if you will be self insured permanately at the end of term, why would you need a "permanant" policy?

    Again, wouldn't you rather have cash?! And if for some aweful reason die 20 years into your 30 year term, you get the savings AND the death benefit! Cash value you do not!

    To me, its between situation A and situation B.

    situation A = pay for 30 years to be self insured.

    situation B = pay until your 100 years old to be self insured.

    Why is situation B EVER better? I just don't get it.

  223. LSM Insurance 12/16/2008 at 7:17 pm

    Hi Damon,

    Thanks for your comment.

    But I disagree that Primerica's policies at least in Canada have better features than other carriers. As stated before a BIG negative is their policies are not convertible. I have also seen no evidence or statistics that their claim paying record is any better or worse than other companies. So in the instances they are significantly overpriced the client is paying potentially thousands of extra dollars for at best equal coverage and possible worse coverage (no conversion feature).

    The car anology is not comparable because as stated above Primerica's track record is not better than Manulife, Empire Life or RBC yet in many instances their premiums are much higher.

    As mentioned in multiple posts there are numerous reasons for having Permanent insurance. And as illustated in the attached calculator it also produces a very attractive rate of return when compared with other risk free investments.

    link to lsminsurance.ca.

    All the best! Lorne

  224. Craig 12/17/2008 at 5:31 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    I've read in numerous posts that Primerica policies are not convertable.

    I believe you don't understand that Primerica does not believe in Permanent insurance. Why would they ever have convertable policies if they do not sell Permanent insurance?

    I'm sure you are a very bright individual. However, in my experience in the financial service industry the majority of Canadians are under protected with regards to life insurance.

    The primary reason is that most agents and brokers choose to sell a family the most expensive policy that gives them the largest commission.

    Primerica is succeeding because of this Lorne.

    When a Primerica representative does a Financial Needs Analysis for a client, they determine the true coverage a family needs.

    A client I visited yesterday had a mortgage and debt totally over 200k. They were sold a universal life policy for 100k only on the husband. The first six years of this policy there was no cash savings.

    Leaving the wife without any insuance when she earns as much as the husband and only covering the husband for 100k is financial malpractice.

    For $65 the family will be protected for $250k each for the next 30 years.

    All of the books I've read in the library or on-line state that people should buy term and invest the difference.

    Lorne, if you stopped driving tomorrow would you continue to buy car insurance.

    Our clients are saving money so they have cash that is greater than there life insurance.

    Of course those who follow the plan will become financially independent. Those who don't unfortunately struggle. That is not the Primerica reps fault Mr. Observer.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

    Craig

  225. LSM Insurance 12/17/2008 at 6:18 pm

    Craig - Thanks for your comment.

    I realize Primerica does not offer Permanent policies and hence their policies are no convertible. This is a major flaw in their product lineup.

    Multiple unbiased third party organizations recommend Permanent insurance solutions when the situation warrants. Examples previously given were the Investment Funds Institute of Canada and The Million Dollar Round Table.

    I strongly agree that the first step in an life insurance sales cycle is to make sure the approriate amount of coverage is selected. We have excellent instant on-line analysis tool link to lsminsurance.ca .

    After the need is determined in my mind the next steps are to review all the options available and the select the best possible value for the client.

    Regards ... Lorne

  226. observer 12/22/2008 at 10:24 am

    Death is 100% and term policies go to claim about 2-3%. ALW/Primerica has been around since about 1977. Where are all the financially independent people? If anything they should be screaming from the roof tops about PFS. It's not happening and Primerica isn't promoting anything like that. You have to ask why not? Could it be because BTIV just didn't work for the masses? How many people who did give up some Perm. product are without coverage now or have health issue where coverage is more expensive. Yes I know rates have come down, but so has the purchasing power of money.

    Just to let you know I was once in Primerica so i know and understand the concepts. the concept at Primerica is charge people more for what they can get elsewhere. Interest Rates don't matter, then why increase them or why have them at all? More fees. Lower commissions..No advancement withour recruiting. At a certain point people should stop defending the company and look at what's in their best business interest. You in some cases ell a FAMILY member a higher cost product because of loyalty to the company, yet at the agents death what happens to the business they brought into PFS? please don't bring up ownership, because as we know most agents won't qualify..

    As for convertibility to a perm. product. The reason PFS agents don't see the value is because they don't deal it head on. A whole life policy is designed to pay at death. A term is designed to pay if someone dies within a time frame. Just think about it for a moment and take a look at a whole life illistration from a mutual company..

    When people get older the need for money doesn't always decrease. That side fund can be depleated real quick because of a health issue.

  227. Ken 01/03/2009 at 3:04 pm

    I have been reading some of the comments on your website about primereica and the different view points i am currently a Primerica client a really like they way they lay all things on the table not just life insurance investments as well and debt managment, I had whole life insurance and once i did the research from numerous finacial books they say buy term and invest the rest, the fact that whole and Uninversal life you say has its place that is fine but were its not requried it is still being sold to the client which does not benefit him or only the company in so many ways, I noticed a quote the was given showing PFS as the higher of the four companies the quaote for a 1 million would be for 10 years 114.48, Just to let all you ohter people now that insuarnce companies dont touch on everything like PFS does like morgage ins and credit card ins as well. My family has had a really bad expeience with whole life after my father Died that they did not tell my mother after he died so please ensure you do your research before you listen to anyone your life ins guy is not you r friend either is your banker they dont pay your bills you do so look after yourself and be sure you ask questions and never buy anything on the first meeting, sites like this are informative but dont be decieved either PFS was just given a very nice award for its investments. David Bach also mentions us in his book start late finish rich
    I have been with PFS for 2 years partime and it works well and i have no problem with any of my client as i am very upfront telling that i am part time, I will be opening an office soon to make sure that companies like london life or FREEDOM 55 dont stay in business. Lorn e maybe you should switch companies and come over to PFS.

    just a end note to all Primerica or not ensure you do your research on the compnay that you deal with and dont believe everything you here as if you go to one store sure there going to tell you not to buy from the other make your own decsion and read books, Rich dad poor dad, Fiannce for dummies life ins for dummies start late finish rich thesse are some good boks to read about investments and lif ins, remeber its your life and your family nobody elses.

    thanks

  228. LSM Insurance 01/04/2009 at 6:06 pm

    Hi Ken,

    Thanks for your comment.

    I agree that prospective purchasers should do their homework when selecting an insurance advisor. Ask about experience, industry credentials and client testomonials

    In my opinion the consumer is also much better served by an independent broker who is free from bias and offers both Term and Permanent solutions.

    Regards ... Lorne

  229. Observer 01/05/2009 at 1:40 pm

    Hello Ken. Just as a note there are a few posters on many of these boards you may read who have been with Primerica. Just as you have invited Lorne to take a look at Primerica, why not consider looking outside of Primerica to get a different perspective?

    Have you ever considered this? Let's say you replace a perm. product and the person does outlive the term plan. With Buy term And Invest The Difference concept to work, there has to be a side account. What if the client does not save? In that case was it in the best interest of the client to replace the perm. product? term goes to claim about 2-3%. People have a 100% chance of death. W.L. is designed to be there at death. PFS agents harp on other agents about commissions from the sale of products, but it's different with you guys. Just as you are going after another company, if you haven't noticed it PFS is taking a beating on the net and it's not form competitors. It's from former agents who have nothing to hide and state facts that can be researched just by reading your agent agreement. As for product comparison, that can be just a case of picking up the phone or going to a quote engine. As always, where are all the financially independent people that Primerica has produced? When Art Williams had the company it's said the sales force was over 200,000 agents strong. What happened to the crusade.

  230. Alex 01/08/2009 at 12:48 am

    I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction for some good articles that make a case "for" WL/permanent insurance when it is appropriate. I've noticed that people who are the strict followers of Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey often times don't trust people who simply disagreeing with them, they really want and need to see "official" sources. (Official, meaning people with the proper credentials, often times with a few numbers to back them up). After all, they see Suze Orman on TV, so she has to know what she's talking about, right? (Sigh) Can you help me out.

  231. LSM Insurance 01/08/2009 at 7:54 am

    Hi Alex,

    Thanks for your comment.

    The articles below may help.

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    The Million Dollar Round Table also has some very good material.

    Regards ... Lorne

  232. mandy 01/08/2009 at 10:58 am

    My current Primerica policy is cheaper than my previous plan. But I was on whole life insurance with my other life insurance policy and term on this one. Is that why it is cheaper? Also the only thing I can say about starting with Primerica alittle while ago is that they don't tell you everything when you start as an employee. I was told $99 and it covers everything. I wasn't informed you you need to take courses, which for the first through Primerica if you fail you have to pay $15 every retake, for the provincial its $110 for every exam. if you get 83% on the online preexam they will pay for your second retake if needed. and you pay $30 a month for their online course. I am a women who was looking for a job to get out of debt, when I started with their fna's and etc, now I cant even afford to pay my bills ontime. before I was in debt but we were paying everything on time. Now our hydro bill is $500 all on its own. The other thing i didn't like is one of the guys who hired me, told me they wanted me to talk at our meeting, and that I was to tell them my story but watch what i said... I always felt so motivational after those meetings like I could accomplish so much but now I haven't even went to one and I am probably not going to work for them because if I have to watch what I say and not tell them my exact story, then no wonder it sounds to wonderful. It really is too good to be true. I work for passion parties too, and I've worked less hours with them and have made more money with them that I have working for Primerica. I have put all my time and effort in for 4 week straight and did not come out with a penny and I would do it everyday two meetings a night every night of the week; I never put my kids to bed or gave them a kiss goodnight because of Primerica. now I'm in debt even more, I dont know how I am going to get out of my financial situation and am thinking of declarying bankruptcy.

  233. LSM Insurance 01/08/2009 at 12:16 pm

    Hi Mandy,

    Thanks for your comment. I'm sorry to hear about your current plight.

    Regarding your new Term policy being less - you are correct the reason it is less (at least initially) is because it's Term policy and the cost increases as you get older. Your Whole Life premium would of remained level for life.

    Generallly speaking replacing an existing Permanent policy is a bad idea. If you need more coverage you would have probably been better off supplementing the old policy with extra Permanent or Term coverage.

    Regarding Primerica's recruiting tactics - I have no insights so I can't comment. Having said that the insurance industry has a very high turnover ratio among new advisors because of 1) lack of quality training and 2) an inappropriate candidate was selected. Advisors new to the business need back up resources when you start because it will likely be 3 to 6 months from the time you get licensed until you start making money. I always advise new brokers to make sure they have a sufficient emergency fund in place before entering the business.

    Good luck with things!

    Regards ... Lorne

  234. Robert 01/15/2009 at 2:01 pm

    I would like to clarify one thing...

    Primerica is not looking for employees!
    We are looking for business partners (you might want to compare it to franchise which has fees I might add)
    You are only paid on the production you generate and bonuses from your team's production. This is compensation for training other potential business partners.

    As a comparison in most job scenario, when you train other employees, we tend not to train them with everything we know for fear of getting replaced by that same person. After all, they are usually paid less than the trainer.
    The other thing is, when was the last time you got extra compensation for training others? I have not witnessed this personally or with other around me.

    Primerica encourages training to the full extent of your knowledge and rewards accordingly. This is the best possible business model for growth.

    As a business owner, you are not expected, nor required to meet any deadlines or quotas. In turn, you will never be fired either. This I believe is the reason that those with the employee mentality has difficulty with. They wish to show up and get paid regardless of their production.
    Now, if you look at a brand new business, a cleaning business as an example. Until you have established a client base that would sustain you and some employees, you are basically a one man band. This means that if you do not show up to open the doors, you make no money. You as a business owner in Primerica are no different.

    Lastly, if you are not capable of self motivation, have fear of rejection by your peers, lack of work ethics, fear of change and wish to take no ownership of your financial future thru business means, then Primerica is not for you.
    Please do not blame a company that is actively seeking out potential partners with these traits.
    You would do best staying in an employee structure system. I believe there is room in this world for both.
    In which ever you choose, I wish you success.

  235. observer 01/16/2009 at 7:03 pm

    Robert. What does that have to do with anything. Ownership. What do you own as a PFS agent? You say one gets fired. Read your agent agreement and focus on termination. Next ask your RVP about agents who have been terminated or even rolled back. As for training. To what advantage is there for PFS to encourage training beyond their Term plan?

    In closing, Primerica isn't looking for employees, they are looking for independent contractors. You ("We") are not Primerica. You just signed a contract with Primerica to sell their products. Ask yourself this. If by chance Citi can't find a buyer for PFS and closes them down will PFS consider you part of their "We"? Nope they own your book of business. You see that's the value if anything companies will look at. All those monthly premium payments. That's where the vlaue is. Hey good luck...

  236. Nathan 01/23/2009 at 1:04 pm

    I'm looking at buying a Whole Life policy but my told my friend says never invest with an insurance company. I'm new to the whole insurance thing -what is your opinion? Also what happens if I buy life insurance and the company goes belly up. Thanks for your help!

  237. LSM Insurance 01/23/2009 at 1:46 pm

    Hi Nathan,

    Thanks for your comment. I disagree with your friends assesment that life insurance companies are not a good place to invest money. Most insurance companies in Canada are in very solid financial shape and all member companies are backed by Assuris. http://www.assuris.ca

    With regards to which type of policy of policy is best. The first step is determine the appropriate amount of coverage. The attached calculator will help with this link to lsminsurance.ca. After you determine the amount of coverage you must than determine the best type of plan for initial situation.

    Term Insurance
    -Has lower initial premium which increase as you you get older
    -Most companies outside of Primerica allow you to convert to a level rate plan without a medical but the premiums are based on your age at the time of conversion

    Permanent Insurance
    -Have a higher initial premium but the cost is level
    -Lifetime Protection
    -Many policies are paid up after a limited number of years and some have a cash value component.

    We would be happy to send you some information for your paticular situation.

  238. Mike 01/27/2009 at 7:23 pm

    If you read "The Wealthy Barber", they tell you to go with term life insurance, and, essentially...to invest the difference.

    I think you as an insurance agent or broker are probably trying to over-complicate the matter of insurance, just as most insurance brokers would do (since they get paid commission).

    I don't necessarily agree with Primerica's "business plan"/scheme...but as far as simple term life insurance goes, mine was *very* inexpensive, and I did get it through Primerica.

    I got TONS of coverage for about $20 CDN a month.

    I appreciate you trying to "educate" the masses, but I think people need to see objective critiquing from someone (or an agency) who doesn't sell insurance, in order for it to be fair and unbiased.

    Thank you.

  239. LSM Insurance 01/27/2009 at 7:52 pm

    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the note. Many of the concepts in the Wealthy Barber are sound others are far too simplistic. If everyone needed just one type of life insurance plan there would be no need for agents or brokers.

    Each persons financial situation is different and it must be judged on it's own merit. Soemtimes Term insurance is the best fit, sometimes Permanent insurance and sometimes a combination is needed.

    You're correct a young person can qualify for a significant amount of Term coverage at $20 a month but that cost will become unaffordable as you age. As many people are finding out the need for insurance can often extend into your later years and in this scenario Term insurance is not an appropriate fit.

    As for commission - a successful broker never has to worry about what he/she makes from a given sale.

    Regards ... Lorne

  240. observer 01/28/2009 at 9:32 am

    How is the wealthy barber doing in today's enviroment. How many middle income people die or retire for that matter financially independent? Death is 100% and term goes to claim about 2-3% of the time. I believe in BTID, but life is the way it is. Not all people invest the difference or anything to speak of for that matter. So as always the best policy is the one enforce at death. A perm. policy is designed to be there at death. Savings can be depleated very easily with a life event.

  241. suny 01/29/2009 at 6:03 pm

    Do you know if you buy permenent life, you still need to pay for fee for your insurance expenses, just more earlier That is why permenant life is much more expensive than term. so insurance company charge over $100 to insure a 30 year old guy. After 10 or 20 years. the client paid out all insurance premium to cover his whole life. The fact behind the policy is that he is only 40 or 50 years old but the insurance is letting him pay the money enough to insure him until 100. if he died in age 55, too bad, the extra money he paid to insurance will not be given back to his family. They will only get the face amount which is only need to be paid for not more that $30 per month if he bought a term life for 25 years.

    Ok, the family may be ok to only receive the face amount. They did not realize they lost his cash value in his policy. it usually is quite amount of money. The insurance company stole it legally.

    What if The guy live until 90, the policy's cash value is already more than the insurance face amount. it is the money after the insurance expenses. it should be his investment. So basically, insurance company is using the client's own investment to pay his death. Then what do we need insurance for?

  242. LSM Insurance 01/29/2009 at 6:34 pm

    Hi Suny,

    Thanks for the comment but it is inaccurate.

    Case and point Unity Life offers a non participating whole life policy available in Canada to applicants aged 18 to 45. The plan provides lifetime protection and is guaranteed paid up at age 65.

    The policy has a guaranteed cash value available at age 65 and the cash value accumulates each year thereafter.

    Below is an example of $250,000 coverage for a 41 year-old Female Non Smoker. The monthly premium is $184.73 - the contribution by 65 is $53,202.24 and the policy is than the $250,000 policy is paid up regardless of interest or stock market flucuations.

    Unity Life’s plan also has a unique Extended Insurance feature. In the event the policy owner is unable to pay premiums and the policy has been in force for 2 years, the insurance amount, less the outstanding loan and any interest due, will remain in force for one year from the date premiums was due. During this period the policy can be put back in force by paying the premium plus any interest. Policyholders can use this feature up to 3 times.

    I am just using Unity Life as an example to show the value of a Whole Life policy when such a policy is needed. All the best! Lorne

  243. John 01/30/2009 at 3:16 pm

    Lorne,

    You buy a 250K 30 year Primerica term policy for 64.60 a month. Take your huge 184.70 subtract 64.60 gives you a savings of 120.13. That is 1,441.56 a year!

    If you put that into an RRSP from 41 until 65, so 24 years, you would receive an approx. tax refund of 30% per year. That is another 432.47 per year! So if you invest your 1441.56 for 24 years with no interest thats 34,597.44 at 8% its 96,245, and at 10% its 127,574!!

    Now you are still insured for another 6 years because of the 30 year term. Stop paying into the investment over the next 6 years at 8% its 152,728 and at 10% its 226,005! WOW, and thats money that you can spend! You don't have to die to get it.

    With the RRSP saving 432.47 per year in tax over 24 years that would be another 10,379 without reinvesting. Or if you used the TFSA you wouldn't get a tax refund but all the money would be free and clear of tax making it 100% your money.

    John

  244. LSM Insurance 01/30/2009 at 3:49 pm

    Hi John,

    Thanks for your post.

    A Couple of points 1) If you did buy a Term policy you would likely be better off with a lower price Term policy from another carrier which is convertible to a Permanent plan without a medical.

    2) You are comparing a risk free asset (non participating Whole Life policy) with a risk based investment. To be a fair comparison you need to compare it with another risk free investment i.e. GIC or equivalent - which are yielding about 3%. If I was guaranteed 10% I could borrow money at 4% or 5% and live off the spread.

    Regards ... Lorne

  245. Bill J 02/03/2009 at 6:12 pm

    Lorne,

    So are you saying that you don't believe the market can return higher than a GIC or Cash Value?

    Bill J.

  246. LSM Insurance 02/03/2009 at 6:28 pm

    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for the note.

    That is not what I'm saying - most historical stats certainly indicate equities outperform GICs and other risk free investments.

    However, many people are uncomfortable with the risks associated with keeping a large portion of their wealth in equities.

    Permanent life insurance can be a great tool to create tax free risk free assets within one's estate.

    The attached link is great tool for determining a life insurance policies Internal Rate of Return link to lsminsurance.ca

    All the best! Lorne

  247. Bill 02/05/2009 at 1:51 pm

    Lorne,

    So you are just assuming that people are uncomfortable with being in equities. Equities is the only way people can attain and keep real wealth. Tell me how many people retire on life insurance policies alone. Probably not one and if they do they only retire for a year.

    I don't think your arguments on why permanent insurance are even valid.

    Thanks,

    Bill

  248. LSM Insurance 02/05/2009 at 4:24 pm

    Hi Bill,

    I didn't say think. I belive the equity markets will rebound. What I am saying is that many people are not comfortable keeping a large percentage in a risk based asset.

    Life insurance can be used to replace lost imcome, cover debt etc or to build or liquify an estate

    When using life insurance to build and create liquity in an estate it's returns can be favourable when compared with other risk free assets.

    Regards ... Lorne

  249. Observer 02/06/2009 at 4:53 pm

    Hello Bill. Something you have to consider is not everyone can be covered by a term policy. Also i don't know if your a Primerica rep., but ALW/PFS has been around for more than 30 years. and as i always ask, where are all the financially independent people they helped? Look around..The reason you don't see the need for perm. products is because you don't target that market.

    Have you ever asked why PFS term. has renewal rates? If you guys do the complete job you say you could do the policy shouldn't be needed beyond the initial term. Term insurance is a great tool, but it's not marketed alone. It's marketed with Buy term Invest the Difference. Is a person better off if they buy the term and no invest on the side to become"financially independent"? What product does Primerica have for clients who can't qualify for the term product? Nothing...Think about it. If they were out to help the people they would have an alternative. You see that's the busioness side beyond the hype..

    Looking at the current economic challenges people are dealing with today, how long do you think they will need coverage? Per. coverage is designed to pay at death guaranteed. Are side accounts guaranteed?

    Sometimes it's good to look at a blend of W.L. and Term..It's about coverage..If you say it's about cost your going to open up the door to look at the cost of your products....

  250. Garry 02/07/2009 at 7:01 pm

    Hello Everyone,
    I am a retired Life Insurance Agent.One thing that nobody has mentioned in this forum is the premium conversion factor that Primerica uses when premiums are paid monthly.The factor is .095.In other words a policy costing $1000.00 per year would convert out to $95.00 per month.Total cost $1140.00 in a year.Go online and using a amortization program see what this works out to.Depending if you use monthly,semiannual in advance it will vary slightly but using interest rates compounded semi annually in advance it works out to 26.4%.I can get money off my credit line at 3.5% as I write this so if your going to deal with Primerica pay annually by getting the money somewhere else and paying annually. Garry

  251. LSM Insurance 02/08/2009 at 9:31 am

    Hi Garry,

    Thanks for the note. This is a very interesting insight. Regards ... Lorne

  252. Josh 02/09/2009 at 2:48 am

    I like how you say not to buy from primerica but look at the banks they do not even offer term insurance.Primerica only offers term insurance.

  253. LSM Insurance 02/09/2009 at 8:31 am

    Hi Josh,

    Thanks for your note. You're correct Primerica only sells Term insurance. However, you're incorrect in saying Canadian bank do not offer Term insurance. RBC and BMO both offer Term policies. The point being the consumer is better off with an independent broker who can shop for the best Term and or Permanent policy.

    Thanks ... Lorne

  254. Rick 02/10/2009 at 3:58 pm

    Gary,

    So don't other companies have a conversion factor or is it just Primerica?

    Rick

  255. LSM Insurance 02/10/2009 at 5:44 pm

    Yes - other companies have conversion factors but the discreptency is not as dramatic. A $1000.00 a year premium at RBC translates into $90.00 a month rather than $95.00.

    Regards ... Lorne

  256. Garry 02/10/2009 at 9:13 pm

    Hi Rick,
    Yes other companies have a conversion factor as Lorne has stated, however Primerica is by far the highest I ever saw.SunLife is about .086 which equal to about 5.25%.Primerica is about FIVE Percentage times that.As I stated earlier I can get money on my credit line at 3.5% so why not pay annual and then pay the line back each month.In so doing I could either have more insurance for the SAME monthly outlay or more difference to invest why pay that rate ? Garry

  257. Bill 02/12/2009 at 3:05 pm

    I have seen other policy that have the same .095 conversion factor. Manulife is one ex.

  258. Bill 02/12/2009 at 3:07 pm

    Lorne,

    Just so you know I used to be an insurance broker for 10 years. I know the difference between bad and good policies. Most companies did not like that I only sold term, that was part of my reason for leaving the industry.

    Bill

  259. LSM Insurance 02/12/2009 at 5:48 pm

    Thanks for the note. But that is inaccurate Manulife's monthly rate on a $1000 annual premium is $87.85.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  260. LSM Insurance 02/12/2009 at 5:57 pm

    Hi Bill,

    In regards to your second email. It is not that one policy is better than the other - it depends on the clients needs and their individual situation. No companies we deal with it have product or premium quotas.

    Regards ... Lorne

  261. Christine 02/18/2009 at 12:08 am

    My father passed away in june and it took forever to get the insurance which was NOT from Primerica. I wish mY dad was covered with Primerica life because he wouldve had enough coverage to cover his last expenses not only that. the terminal illness is free therefore he wouldve had 40% of his coverage to help pay for this medical costs. Honestly Primerica life insurance is the best of all. They perfected their term! Any smart person would know that Term is the way to go! the rest is a major rip off! i dont understand how all theses people are cutting up such a good product that could help their family out tremendously however anyone wasting time to write out negative blogs on a company has to find a hobby of some sort and find something else better to do with their time! I LOVE PRIMERICA INSURANCE!!! FRIG I LOVE PRIMERICA THE COMPANY! They have totally changed my families lives for the best and it's unfortunate that others havent had the same experience! sorry about your loss!

  262. LSM Insurance 02/18/2009 at 9:19 am

    Hi Christine,

    I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

    It's unfortunate the claim took a while to settle. I have seen no evidence Primerica settles claims quicker than other companies. Most insurance companies do offer terminal illness benefits.

    Primerica does offer certain well priced Term plan but many of their plans are uncompetitively priced and offer the consumer a poor value.

    Lastly if your father had taken a Term policy instead depending on his age when he passed away a Term policy may of expired and would not have paid out.

  263. Observer 02/18/2009 at 2:50 pm

    Also depending on where your at many different companies have different percentages for the terminal illiness benefit. I can assume because of his health issues PFS couldn't/wouldn't offer coverage. Out of respect I won't go into other details as this is a very sensitive moment for you.

    As a small rebuttal, Primerica has not perfected term. Just as an example if a person did purchase a PFS term policy and developed a health issue they would be stuck with the PFS renewal schedule. Will with a carrier that allows a conversion that client could lock in a face amount and premium for the life..If it's a long drawn out illness the policy stays the same. with PFS if it's a long drawn out illness the premiums change...As for their terminal illiness benefit some companies will go to up to 75% and above..

  264. Aaron 02/24/2009 at 11:42 pm

    I have read several e-mails both positive and negative regarding Primerica's "term only" approach. I have also read your responses to these e-mails and would like to commend you for your consistancy. You have an opinion and you're sticking to your guns. I do have one question though. At the very top of this blog, there is a quote from Primerica's website where it says..."Buy Term and Invest the Difference".

    I have not heard anywhere, in any of these e-mails where the "invest the difference" part of their philosophy is brought to light.

    I met with a Primerica representative recently and I asked what that meant. He told me that you can purchase term insurance cheaper than you can purchase permanent insurance and, if you invest the difference you will accumulate savings outside of your policy. Yes, it's true, you policy will eventually lapse and as you have been so quick to point out on nearly every e-mail, their policies are not convertible so they will, at some point, be left without insurance. However, at the end of a 20, 25 or even 30 year term the client, in some cases may have accumulated $75,000 - $100,000 or more in savings. During the term the client is covered, there need for insurance (mortgage, replacement income, child's education, other debt payments) should be drastically reduced. A 25 year mortgage would be paid off by the time the insurance expires.

    I would much rather have insurance while I have a need for it and a savings account with $100,000 ore more at my retirement than having permanent insurance until my death and no savings or at least no savings I can take without borrowing them from my insurance company.

  265. LSM Insurance 02/25/2009 at 12:42 pm

    Hi Aaron,

    Thanks for email.

    I'm in no way saying to use life insurance in lieu of an RRSP or equivalent savings product.

    Having said that many people want to have Permanent life insurance i.e insurance that remains at a fixed premium for insured's lifetime. Permanent insurance can offer a very attractive return for Estate Planning and creation when compared with other no risk investments like a GIC.

    If the insured only wants and needs Term insurance they will get a much better rate by going with a broker and the coverage is convertible if the insureds situation changes.

    This gives the insured more money to invest and or to pay down debt.

    All the best! Lorne

  266. Nick 03/04/2009 at 11:02 am

    Lorne,

    I am an insurance advisor who has grown up in this industry (I'm a third generation broker). I have worked with, and am related to, advisors who were on the ethics committee’s and E&O Committee’s back when A.L.Williams (PFS's original company) was running things and since...so I've had some experience in the dealings of PFS agents. I agree with pretty much everything you've said and applaud you for putting it out there.

    A few points that I mention to my clients about the "buy term and invest the difference" strategy include:

    A person, if they follow the investing part of that plan, will likely end up with a large amount of assets towards the end of their life. When they pass away the gains will have to be paid on these assets. I would rather use insurance at pennies on the dollar for this expense versus liquidating the assets to pay the tax man. If I only had Term Insurance likely this coverage ended years earlier. Universal Life is a wonderful program to accomplish both tasks.

    I have run into many a scenario where people 65 or over have unexpectedly needed Life Insurance. For example, I have seen situations where Grandparents have suddenly found themselves the guardians over their grandchildren and now need insurance to cover their well being. Again, if they'd only had Term Insurance this coverage would be long gone and would cost a fortune to replace.

    Term Insurance has it's place. Permanent insurance has it's place. Insurance 101 tells everyone that replacing permanent insurance with term insurance is a BAD IDEA!

    I noticed in your responses to the article that one person pointed out that PFS does not talk down any other companies. I spent some time with a PFS rep a few years ago and she spent the whole time telling me how horrible a company London Life is. The funny part was, all of the statistics she gave me about London Life were identical to what the rest of us were saying about PFS!

    Finally, I don't know if this is still the case, but I remember some years ago I found it difficult to understand a company that offered more compensation for recruiting new people than it did for selling it's product.

    Oh, and to reply to one other comment someone made, I am friends with most of my clients. Many of them think of me as family. I look out for their well being, their families, their businesses...and when they pass away, I offer support, guidance and while everyone else is looking for money I show up carrying a cheque.

    My two cents. Keep up the good work!

  267. LSM Insurance 03/04/2009 at 11:14 am

    Hi Nick,

    Thanks for the comment. I very much agree with your point.

    "Term Insurance has it’s place. Permanent insurance has it’s place."

    It is the advsiors responsibility to present a full range of options to their clients and select solutions that best fit each persons individual situation.

    Regards ... Lorne

  268. Nate Price 03/06/2009 at 10:30 pm

    I've just meet with a representative from Primerica everything he said sounded really good. I already have term life insurance and Im not going to change it because I think its pretty good. He seemed to have some pretty good Ideas on how to invest my money by consolidating loans and putting some of the saved money into a Roth and some on the principal of the loan. Does this sound like a good Idea or is there something Im missing here? Do you think Primerica is all bad or just certain aspects of it.

  269. LSM Insurance 03/07/2009 at 9:32 am

    Hi Nate,

    Thanks for the note.

    I can't comment on a Roth - I'm only licensed in Canada and my knowledge of US investments are limited.

    As for Primerica being all bad. I wouldn't say that - they have some definite flaws in their product lineup which is highlighted in the article and many of the above posts, but they also have some very capable agents. As is the case with most large companies there are some good apples and bad apples.

    Regards ... Lorne

  270. Patrick 03/10/2009 at 7:33 pm

    I have been researching Primerica and your site along with a few other negative sites came up and at first I bought into it and basically told off a good friend due to the comments made on your blog. I then started checking out Susie Orman after seeing her on Oprah, and in doing so learned alot about insurance and investing. Along the way someone suggested that I should not listen to blogs and oppinion but fact. I then checked out the INVESTMENT EXECUTIVE(? Lorne do you believe this to be a respected paper?) newspaper and found out that Primerica's Segregated fund have beaten out all others four years in a row and that for insurance they are also rated near the top and definately number one for term insurance(A.M. BEST)and their mutual funds are highly rated as well. And that AGF manages their investment and AGF just won investors choice award for the 2 time in 3years. I think it is pathetic of you to prey upon the weak minded folks that take your blog and your oppinion as fact, not realizing that as an insurance agent you obviously are profiting by trying to discredit a reputable company. I DARE YOU TO LEAVE THIS COMMENT ON YOUR BLOG!!!!! March 10 2009 7:39PM

  271. LSM Insurance 03/10/2009 at 8:13 pm

    Hi Patrick,

    Thanks for the comment. The article and comments focus on Primerica's insurance lineup. I've done my best to provide an even handed approach of Primerica's life insurance product portfolio.

    As mentioned in several posts Primerica has improved it's pricing on several plans but they remain uncompetitively priced on many others and they offer an incomplete product lineup. Primerica agents are also restricted from shopping the market for the best value and their Term policies are not convertible.

    All the best! Lorne

  272. New agent 03/12/2009 at 6:08 am

    Hi Lorne,
    I am still relatively new to the industry and I am a Primerica agent. There is a large amount of information here and I have only made it through about half of the posts. There is one more benefit to a cash value policy that I have yet to see posted. If I understand correctly, annuities and cash value insurance are members of a small group assets that are considered "creditor proof." That is to say, they can't be forcibly liquidated to settle a debt or judgement.
    Also, I have a note to the other Primerica agents. Beware absolutes. There are always exceptions to the rule. Primerica has capitalized very well on a niche market, but we are not the know all end all for the industry. Art Williams designed a system that effectively covered a segment of the population that was lacking support from the industry at the time. But in the last 30 years, don't you think the others have had time to play catch up? Instead, focus on doing what is best for your clients, and that may not always be Primerica. Everyone has limitations. Get to know yours.
    Term has its benefits, and those benefits sound fantastic to our targent market. But cash value has its own benefits as well. I still chose a UL policy for my son after I went through PFSU, after I became a licensed agent, and after several weeks of Tuesday night/Saturday morning sessions of Buy Term Invest the Difference.

  273. LSM Insurance 03/12/2009 at 8:59 am

    Thanks for sharing your insights.

    As has been stated in several posts - I think the key is to find the solution that is the best fit for the client. Regards ... Lorne

  274. Observer 03/12/2009 at 2:42 pm

    New agent you got it right. I can understand Primerica agents working their business and making sales, but to make it seem like everyone else is evil just shows a lack of open mindedness (If that's a word) to the total market. Primerica is a business but so far you are the only one I have seen who actually thinks for yourself. Yes i'm sure there are others, but they just don't seem to post.

  275. Pri Girl 03/12/2009 at 4:41 pm

    Lorne,
    Have you done any actual research on Primerica? That is, do you research credible publications? Being in the industry you must have access to various resources. For example, INVESTMENT EXECUTIVE(as stated above). Or do you just get your information from disgruntled people who did not care to put as much effort into building a business as they do in blogging their failure stories with Primerica? I am amazed at how many people do not know how to do proper research on a company. You must be an intelligent guy, or at least i would hope, as you are handling people life insurance. Give yourself some credit and some credibility and at least show that you know the truth about the company. I would take advice from someone who can admit that a company can and does offer better rates because then at least you're being honest, over someone who seems to know nothing about the players in the industry...educate yourself. I'll be shocked if you actually post this.

  276. LSM Insurance 03/12/2009 at 5:17 pm

    Thanks for post.

    The Investment Executive is a very credible magazine. Not to toot my own horn but I was quoted in the Investment Executive several times.

    I have never read the Investment Executive recommending Primerica life insurance policies over rival carriers. The fact still remains that Primerica's pricing is uncompetitive on many products and they have an incomplete product lineup.

    All the best! Lorne

  277. Patrick 03/16/2009 at 11:39 am

    One thing that people fail to mention is that if you're an agent and you sell a whole life or a universal life product to a client you make 3,4 and 5 times the commission you would make verses selling that client a term policy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the vast majority of agents would then push this higher commissioned policy on their clients just to make the almighty buck (HUMAN NATURE). Primerica knows this and also knows that if you tie your investments to insurance then the only winner is the INSURANCE COMPANY controlling that policy & investment(Do you think that the insurance companies have your best interests at heart? Do you think that investing in a whole life or universal life policy investment will afford you the same return as a separate mutual or seg fund? If you do your a fool!) Four years in a row Primerica Seg funds are #1 & Primerica Concert funds are also near the top and Primerica again has swept more than half the categories in the INVESTMENT EXECUTIVE, They have an A+ Superior rating for life insurance (A.M.Best) and for financial Stability AA Superior, Very Strong. If Lorne believed in looking out for his clients he would not be arguing that Whole life UL was better than term for his clients he would be offering them term t-100 with no cash value or investment(that increase commissions and insurance company profits) just permanent life insurance for the rest of your life.

  278. LSM Insurance 03/16/2009 at 12:27 pm

    Hi Patrick,

    Thanks for the note but your comment is flawed on three fronts.

    1. Term policyholders do pay lower commission up front (it should be noted commissions are built in as an operating cost to the insurance company and are priced into the premium) but over the insured's lifetime he/she will likely pay more commission on a Term policy. Someone who takes a Term policy in there 20's or 30's will likely apply for a new policy several times in his/her lifetime paying commission each time. Moreover, there is a good chance he/she will settle on some form of Permanent insurance at some point in the future once again paying commission. As stated in several posts a good broker NEVER worries about commission. It is a good idea for the consumer to look at testomonials from existing clients and the brokers credentials to see his/her commitment to the profession.

    2. This is not an investment related blog but based on your logic all investors would simply choose Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs) to lower the commission they pay. Obviously this is not the case and other variables factor into the equation.

    3. Universal Life with a Term 100 Cost of Insurance is essentially a Term 100 policy with an optional investment component and in some instances they offer a lower cost. Many clients want a reserve in the policy just in case he/she ever needs to miss a payment. We always recommend the product that is best for the client.

    All the best! Lorne

  279. New agent 03/16/2009 at 10:29 pm

    Patrick,
    I fail to see where Lorne said "cash value is better", or "term is better". I have repeatedly seen where he writes that you have to look at what is best for the client. Sounds kind of like Primerica if you stop and think. We run the FNA to see exactly what the client's situation is. We then determine what products we offer best fit the client. Lorne's take on Primerica is that we don't offer cash value even though there are some clients who it would be a better choice for. Granted with our targeted clientel, those numbers are few. As I posted before, Art Williams established the company to serve a niche market, not a full spectrum of clients.

  280. Jorge 03/18/2009 at 5:23 pm

    Lorne, I keep hearing you say they are not competitively priced. OTHER than a 10 year term, which no one in their right mind would purchase unless they are 55 years old and have a liability of only 10 years, I cant find a quote anywhere that is priced lower than primerica... this make me curious as to where you are getting your quotes from.

    Also, about commissions on a term products... again, no one would pay more commissions on products if they went with primerica because primerica gives a family a single policy with a single policy fee, most other companies do not do this. And primerica also usually puts in ONE policy with a long enough term to cover a families liability so their will never be a need to renew their insurance, thus not paying more commissions.

    In many financial planning books it simply states "buy term, this is the best product available to the consumer" also, their are many articles published and books published calling whole life and universal life a legal scam... how can you reccommend these products to clients? show me a situation where that would be beneficial.

    You sure do spend a lot of time talking about this company.. why is that?

  281. LSM Insurance 03/18/2009 at 5:45 pm

    Hi George,

    Thanks for the note.

    Primerica pricing has improved but they remain uncompetitively priced on several products
    e.g. $300,000 Term 20 for a 50 year old female non smoker: AXA Assurance $75.60 a month; Manulife $76.74 a month and Primerica is $117.52 a month.

    As for your second point they're are multiple instances in which someone needs Term 10 coverage. a) they may have children in their late teens b) less than 10 years on their mortgage or c) be on a tight budget

    Permanent insurance can be used a)Cover final exoenses b) Estate Preservation - offset taxes c)Estate Creation d)As a tax shelter -albeit this is limited to a smaller segment of the population.

    The reason I'm talking about Primerica is this blog deals with the reasons why not to buy a Primerica policy. Our site has numerous blogs which do not mention Primerica. All the best! Lorne

  282. New agent 03/18/2009 at 8:36 pm

    Jorge,
    There are other instances where whole life beats out term. I looked at both for my son. At his age (5) it was less than a 5% difference to take a UL option A instead of a term child rider for the same coverage. The policy has a 4% guarantee and a 5% estimate. So if I took the 5% difference in premium, I would have to get an 80% annual return from an investment to even get a comparison. In my situation, it was more beneficial to get the separate policy since I only have one child. The Primerica child rider only lets you increase up to 5 times the original coverage. The UL comes with a GIO where I or my son can increase it 7 times.

    Also there are other instances where a 10 year term is the best - to cover a loan used to start a business, a buy-sell agreement for a partnership, maybe the client just needs a shorter term policy/rider to cover the credit card debt, etc.

    I'm curious, are you with Primerica? If so, then you should already be aware that our policies are broken down into riders such as the Custom 10, Custom 20, and Custom 30 in order to cover those different levels of need.

  283. LSM Insurance 03/19/2009 at 8:02 am

    Thanks for the comment. As stated above I agree there are many instances where a 10 year Term policy is a good fit for the consumer. It's the agent/brokers job to clearly explain the different options and determine the best solution.

    All the best! Lorne

  284. Observer 03/20/2009 at 11:09 pm

    Can any of the PFS people explain the options available to a spouse if there is a death or divorce and the husband and wife are on one policy? Considering the policies are bundled together, what happens when they have to be unbundled?

  1. New agent 03/21/2009 at 11:12 pm

    I have yet to personally handle one of these cases, but as it has been explained to me, we simply take the spouse rider and convert it to a separate policy.

  2. LSM Insurance 03/22/2009 at 9:17 am

    Thanks for sharing this information. When the conversion is done into an individual policy is it done without a medical?

  3. Observer 03/22/2009 at 8:04 pm

    Is the conversion at previous saved age or attained age?

  4. New agent 03/23/2009 at 2:07 am

    As I said, I haven't personally seen one of these yet. I'll have to check the book to be absolutely certain, but for now I'll post what I BELIEVE to be correct. Final disclaimer - I may be wrong here. If any other PFS agents can confirm or correct, please pipe in.

    If I am remembering correctly from what I was told, the prior medical and underwriter screening carries over (no new medical exam), but the rates are at the current age at the time of the new policy. So if a couple bought a 20 year Term at age 25, then divorced at age 30: the primary (we'll say husband for this example) would continue his policy for another 15 years with the spouse rider now removed. The wife would start a new policy for whatever term she wants to set it up for, 20 year, 30 year, etc., but she is now paying age 30 rates instead of age 25.

    I'll say one last time, this is from my memory, not the plan book. Let me get through some term papers and exams this week, and I'll try to submit the book verbatim.

  5. LSM Insurance 03/23/2009 at 8:37 am

    Thanks for sharing your insights. Your disclaimer is noted. Regards ... Lorne

  6. Rick Davis 03/27/2009 at 5:35 am

    I think you would do much better promoting yourself as opposed to downgrading another company. Negative energy won't do you any good, and no one is going to change their mind about a company just because you don't like them.

  7. LSM Insurance 03/27/2009 at 5:48 am

    Hi Rick,

    Thanks for the comment and the marketing tip.

    I disagree the article is creating negative energy. It is providing an independent analysis of Primerica's product portfolio.

    We have similar types of blogs on other company plans with intent of providing consumers with unbiased advise. Our free on-line quoting service link to lsminsurance.ca has no bias to any paticular company.

  8. Mario 03/28/2009 at 9:30 am

    Hi

    I recently had a Primercia agent at our house (a relative that is doing training). The only thing that they could sell me on was replacing my mortgage insurance with their Term Life. The rates weren't any better but they stuck to the fact the banks policies rarely if ever pay out because of post claim underwriting where they find a reason to deny the claim. Do you know if this is as common as they say.

  9. LSM Insurance 03/28/2009 at 10:41 am

    Hi Mario,

    Thanks for the note. The attached article link to lsminsurance.ca will provide you with more details on mortgage insurance.

    I don't think it is fair to say the banks mortgage insurance plans rarely pay out. But I do think it is somewhat safe to safe more claims are denied than on mortgage individual insurance policies than individual life insurance policies (although I have no stats to back this up). As a rule of thumb on mortgage insurance applications minimal underwriting is done at the time of application and more strenious underwriting is done at the time of claim. If you are non smoker the pricing is almost always better on an individual policy.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  10. Chris 04/06/2009 at 11:02 am

    The reason why you don't hear of Primerica often is because they don't spend money on advertising. Rather they use the millions of dollars, other wise spent on hockey crash boards, on educating their sales force and better dealing with a clients WHOLE financial situation, not just insurance. Thought I'd just toss that in.

  11. Chris 04/06/2009 at 11:05 am

    as well if you want to see an interesting take on mortgage insurance you can watch this CBC marketplace video.

  12. LSM Insurance 04/06/2009 at 1:25 pm

    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for your comments. Many insurance companies count on word of mouth from their broker network. Empire Life and Equitable Life are two very good companies with an excellent product lineup that rely heavily on word of mouth advertising.

    The CBC video is a good one. The attached article may also be helpful.

    link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  13. observer 04/06/2009 at 5:13 pm

    Sorry Chris. The reason you don't see Primerica advertising is because their target market is a recruit's warm market. Why would they wish to compete within the open market? Primerica is about the MLM concept period. Now as far as helping with the whole financial situation please define whole..What you will find out is your definition of whole is what Primerica defines as whole. Which breaks down to what products they allow you to market.

  14. carole 04/15/2009 at 2:40 am

    k im not sure what i got myself into i met with a guy from my community today and now im off to some meeting tomorrow night. What is primerica i have read many different things about this company and now im wondering if this all a scam. You see im a single mom and im already in school so im wondering if this is really a good thing to do not only that but will i make any money. I read about getting friends and family to buy this stuff and well im not sure that can be done as im new o he province and i don know anybody should i even bother?????

  15. LSM Insurance 04/15/2009 at 9:07 am

    Hi Carole,

    Thanks for your comment.

    Primerica is not a scam they are legitimate company that sells financial products.

    As stated in the above article they have some definite holes in their product lineup. The insurance industry has a very high turnover ratio among new agents/brokers.

    The key to being successful in this business is to be very passionate about what you do. The other key is to make sure you get the right training. If they are having just approach your friends and family you will be out of the business in short order.

    You have to connect with a mentor/manager who is going to help you create a sustainable long term plan of action.

    The attached article also shares some other key traits. link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  16. amanda 04/16/2009 at 8:07 am

    And there are some big holes with Primerica. First they told me when I started that they wanted people to get out debt free and financialy independent. And that I could ask anyone I know. Then farther into the deal I got, they started saying things like they MUST own a home. And I wanted there smart loan. They told me I had to wait till I was in my house for a year. I was just getting by relying on attempting to get this smart loan, which puts all loans into one. Then came March and they they told me i needed to get my house assessed. So I did. I found out I double my house value from 69,900 to 122,900. They then turned around to me, and said your house needs to be at 140,000. Do renovations and come back at a later date.

    My point is they blind people. They make it sound really good until they got one of your services. I am more in debt now going by there plan than I was doing it on my own. And after a year I am finally back on track but those numbers gave us a crunch and that year I can never get back.

  17. LSM Insurance 04/16/2009 at 8:36 am

    Hi Amanda,

    Thanks for sharing for comments. It sounds like you had a very bad experience.

    I can't comment on this side of Primerica's business. This blog has limited its scope to Primerica's life insurance lineup.

    Good luck with things. Lorne

  18. William 04/19/2009 at 9:59 pm

    I have worked as a Financial Planner for over 15 years. We have had approximately 6 people come to our firm having previously been employed briefly by Primerica. Each one says the same thing: "Primerica is a borderline scam!" They also stated that they were poorly trained and relly knew very little about life insurance and living benefits. Having been re-trained and educated on all aspects of insurance they cannot believe what a lack of guidance they had there.

    When it comes to insurance a good planner will peform an Insurance Needs Analysis to identify exactly how much insurance and what type of insurance you will need to give you the proper coverage. They will not simply sell their own insurance but farm it out to reputable companies to get you the best deal and underwriting. Then they will develop an insurance plan that will be based on your budget. And so on....

  19. saudia 04/28/2009 at 2:59 am

    To sum it all up, primerica is a bad company right? and the whole thing is a scam?

    First off, I will start by quoting Donald Trump himself: "Direct selling is the stongest way of selling a product, and is the oldest system in America!"

    Which is what Primerica is doing.

    Buy term invest the differnce is 100% the way to go! there are countless # of books that will agree with that statement!

    Letters of Bussinesman to his son.
    Suzie Orman, 9steps to fincial freedom : who is also a licensed life insurance broker in 50 states in america.
    The Wealthy Brber.
    Finances For Dumies Canadian verison.
    That is just a few of top of my head!

  20. Isabelle 04/28/2009 at 3:38 pm

    Well, this was very interesting reading. Thank you !

    You may be interested in knowing that the Quebec laws make is so primerica agents here have to be full timers. No part timers. Needless to say that you have to be positive, go getter, full of energy to succeed and fully licensed to be in the business. It is not for everyone. It is your main income.. so is it a scam ? No. Agents in Quebec are doing very well, if they were not, there would be no primerica in our province.

    Did you know that 70% of the population cannot retire properly for lack of financial knowledge and investments ? Primerica is there to teach this. As Saudia mentionned, read and research, Suzie Orman knows this and is already reaching millions.

    Why is it that in this post, nowhere is it mentionned that a life insurance without a prior medical is not safe. You pay your fees, you die, the insurance company investigates your medical history to find out that your were not insurable due to an illness. You beneficiary will get back your premiums but not the insurance. So you have paid thousands of dollars, the company has made a huge profit and your family is left with peanuts.
    Primerica's rate may be a little more expensive but you are garanteed the full amount you are insured for because of medical test prior to being accepted.

    Same thing with mortgage life insurance. You pay your premiums (which never go down) for what you think is your full original mortgage fee and when you die, they pay the residual of what is owed.

    Is it not wise to cancel all life insurances that your have (mortgage, credit cards etc etc), have one good term insurance that will be paid in full (if you die within the term) and put the savings in investments to have financial freedom and not need insurance anymore.. ?

    Buy term insurance and invest the difference.
    Pay the term policy in one payment and again you save the interest.... invest your savings..

    It only makes sense to me.

    my two cents

    I am not a PFS agent. It's just common sense.

    Isabelle

  21. LSM Insurance 04/28/2009 at 5:37 pm

    Hi Isabelle/William,

    I agree - to suggest that Primerica is illegitimate company is unfair.

    But to purport EVERYONE should simply Buy Term and Invest the difference is also unbalanced advice.

    The attached article addresses the issue in more detail link to lsminsurance.ca

    In Terms of Primerica paying out a higher number of claims than other insurance carriers I have seen no stats to support this.

    Each of the organizations/publications below are unbiased third parties and all support a balanced approach to insurance. Meaning sometimes Term insurance is the right fit and sometimes Permanent policies work better.

    link to fpsccanada.org

    link to mdrt.org

    link to insurance-journal.ca

    link to advocis.ca

    Interestingly LIMRA just reported Whole Sales were up 13% in
    2008. link to lsminsurance.ca

  22. LSM Insurance 04/28/2009 at 5:49 pm

  23. isabelle 04/28/2009 at 6:23 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    Of course there has to be a balance where life insurance is concerned.

    A young couple with a little nest egg, house, good job etc etc would be better off with a term life insurance and investing the difference.. by the time they are 65 they will have a million in their account.. that is simple math... obviously not needing life insurance by the time the term is over, they will have gained financial freedom.

    On the other end.. a couple starting later on in life would be more likely smarter to invest in the perm. life since the investments will not grow as fast (again depending on how they invest). As previously mentioned in this post, all life situations are different and so are the needs.
    With a very good, well educated agent who cares, there are many ways to eventually be financially free.
    It is all up to the client to follow the advice and to do the research properly.
    But like Wes said.. bring two different reps and let them debate or more if you can, it can make for a very interesting afternoon..

    I am a primerica client and am now debt free, am saving well over a thousand a month and by following my agent's advice, I am well on my way to financial freedom. I know there are other companies out there that are just as helpful, finding them is the problem.

    What I dislike about most insurance companies is that not all is explained and who actually reads all the very fine print under the fine print.

    All that said, the cherry on the sundae was the free financial analysis and the fact that I had a choice with absolutely no obligation. I did do my research before signing anything and they made more sense then most..

    I found it a very refreshing concept. I get a follow up from my agent once a month. I have not had that service before with other companies aside from trying to sell me more insurance.

    Regards,

    Isabelle.

  24. LSM Insurance 04/28/2009 at 7:17 pm

    Hi Isabelle,

    It sounds like you have an excellent agent.

    But all things being equal - and I'm unconvinced Primerica agents deliver better service than independent brokers - you would have likely saved more money going with an independent broker and thus had more money to invest.

    Primerica's pricing is very high for most females. They price males and females at the same rate. Moreover, your Term policy would of been convertible should you of required Permanent coverage down the road.

    I have read several Primerica policies and there is just as much fine print. The best practice for any consumer ask a lot of questions - find out how long the agent/broker has been in the business, what is their educational background and training and ask for references from existing clients.

    Regards ... Lorne

  25. Jerry M 05/04/2009 at 10:01 pm

    My wife and I have Primerica live Insurance. We have had it for a little over a year and feel something is not right about the plan but do not know for sure. She has a family member that works for Primerica and said she could get us a good deal. At that time I was about to turn 65 and my wife was about to turn 45. My wife was able to get life ins for about $33 and mine costs about $70 some dollars. All in all it came up to about $103.00 per month. Her insurance was 100,000 and and mine wass about 25,000. Now the price has gone up for both of us is $126.00 per month and they increased both our death benefits This policies are set for 10 years and after that we would have to get a new policy. The agent said we are saving money and we will not need life insurance after 10 years. This doesn't sound right do it. And one more thing we were told that we could not borrow on our policy. When we get to the end that's it it's done over start over again. She said it is just like car ins, renew it.

  26. LSM Insurance 05/05/2009 at 7:26 am

    Hi Jerry,

    Thanks for the comment. Your Primerica policy likely has provision we the coverage and premiums increase each year to keep in line with inflation - you should be able to reduce the coverage back to the original face without a medical if this better suits your situation.

    One major drawback with Primerica's Term policies is the plans are not convertible to a Permanent plan if you decide you want insurance for your lifetime. Regards ... Lorne

  27. Observer 05/06/2009 at 5:58 pm

    That sounds like their increasing benefit rider. Call the agent and ask them to explain it to you. With you being 65 and there being a 20 year difference between you and your wife's age was a Term on you the best value? Call an independent agent and have them look over your your program. If they can offer you better coverage then make a decision, but have your pFS agent come over and explain the policy to you and ask if it's convertible to a permanent plan in case you need permanent coverage? Then ask them to show you the potential renewal rates after 10 years.

    Just for grins. I looked up some rates for a 65 year old male nonsmoker, standard on a quoting engine and I see the lowest rate at $26.95 a month. no disrespect, but at age 65 no one can say anyone will not have a need for life insurance in 10 years time frame. Your wife might wish to lock in a face amount and premium for the rest of your life. Consult a independent agent. Contact Lorne..

  28. Bob 05/07/2009 at 11:21 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    I just wanted to say that I have read the entire thread from top to bottom and am very impressed with how you conducted yourself and this blog. Kudos !

    I can see valid points for all that have contributed but still somehow fail to see how a whole life / UL policy can be attractive. Yes, I agree everyone and their particular situations are different - absolutely.

    With the same breath, an independent agent referred to us by a close friend came over to talk with us about insurance. This was 2005, I was 28, we just had a baby and were expecting our second. My wife graduated from Chiropractic College the year prior and I was working in the IT field making more then my wife (I was working since 2000, she is working to pay off debt).

    Anyway, I remember vividly that the agent didn't go over any magic analysis but only asked us how much we could afford - I think my range was $125 - $150 / month. Based on that, and that alone, we signed for a whole life cash valued policy with a face value of $150,000.

    The adviser held a CFP designation and sounded very intelligent and so we trusted him and we paid (reluctantly) the monthly premiums because we just bought a home and trying to do the "right thing" - to protect my family.

    I now have a problem with the insurance field in general because if I would have read the policy (let's face it, how many actually do?) I would never have agreed to the concepts that make up the policy. I knew that I was going to die someday and because of that - I needed insurance.

    He made it sound so alluring, that it seemed like a no brainer! Like other posters, they have made equally justifiable arguments about why perm ins?

    In my situation, at my age, just starting - I needed more coverage at the time and would have preferred to pay less - that wasn't presented as an option. It seemed like it was the flavour of the month, or the bread and butter of this particular adviser. I remember at the time the only question that I really wanted to know was how much he was going to make of the sale - he didn't divulge the information.

    Lorne, I am very curious what situations (generally speaking) would you ever from the get go recommend permanent insurance. I am familiar with your diatribe mentioning: estate planning, etc.. BUT 28 yrs old, just starting - this has left a very bad impression in my mind.

    I think that you might be an exception to the rule, but any advisor I have had since that time (Sunlife, Clarica, Quadrus) dealing with (RRSP, RESP, other policies for my kids) have come to our home, asked for money and never gave me the time of day afterward. I should say, the only time I do hear from them is a postcard reminding me to give them more money to invest at tax time so they can get commission.

    I would like not to be jaded but I disagree that agents that deal with commissions care about the commissions first, the client second. If you care about the client and treat this as a marathon, then as I said, you are the exception the rule.

    The more I read about insurance, the more I like the concept of buying term and investing the difference. Now that I have gone through the pain of this, I wish that is what I had done from the start. I don't know if this is true, but over the years, the independent agents that would sell a policy similar to mine (my original) would have received a commission equal to the first year's worth of premiums - but the same agent recommending term would only receive a fraction of that if they sold term.

    Hmmm, as I said, I don't know if that is true, but if you can honestly look me in the eye and say that IF an advisor could sell the perm ins? why wouldn't they - If I was the advisor, I would care about my bottom line - my commission.

    Sorry for the essay, just a frustrated wanderer dealing with the insurance enigma.

    Bob

  29. LSM Insurance 05/08/2009 at 7:20 am

    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the kinds words.

    It sounds like you did not have a very good advisor. The fact that an advisor is a CFP does not guarantee he or she will do a good job but it will improve the probability. The CFP exam is much extensive than the life exam.

    The first step in any analysis is to determine the right amount of insurance. See attached calculator link to lsminsurance.ca.

    The next step is to explain the different insurance plans and help you select the plan that is best for your situation. Depending on your needs, goals and budget. This may be Permanent or it may be Term.

    The final step is to review your plan periodically on a go forward basis as your needs change. Once again it doesn't sound like the advisor is doing this.

    In Terms of commission. Term policyholders often pay higher commissions because the average Term policyholders replaces his/her policy multiple times over their lifetime. A Permanent policy would only be taken out once.

    From the agent/brokers perspective this should not factor into the equation. Misguided advice will only cost an advisor money in the long run.

    I hope this helps. Regards ... Lorne

    PS You may also be interested in our article "Buy Term and Invest The Difference" link to lsminsurance.ca

  30. amanda 05/08/2009 at 9:40 am

    I've said it many times before "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is" That's what I told my friend and her Primerica supervisor (or call him what you will). They knew all the right things to say and impressed me so much that I got invloved with them and I almost had to file for bankrupcy. It really is too good to be true and they arent looking to help anyone get out of debt. The never explained to me that you need a house, cars and equity to get started. All that was said is we want to help people get out debt free and financially independent. I'm on my way to being debt free on my own.

  31. LSM Insurance 05/08/2009 at 11:32 am

    Hi Amanda,

    Thanks for sharing and congratulations on your financial transformation.

    It sounds like you were connected with a poor mentor/supervisor at Primerica.

    As stated in several posts potential clients should do their homework on the agent/broker they are working with. Ask about his/her educational background, experience and recommendations from past clients.

    You may an excellent point new agents/brokers entering the business generally need a car and some liquid savings to cover the learning curve associated with entering a new business.

  32. Joe 05/14/2009 at 8:51 pm

    I'm a agent with a national insurance company. Anyone looking to get involved in with Primamerica, know this: most life agents in national companies have a wage and benefits. The company pays for your training and your boss gets no money from your work. If you have to pay for your professional development out of your pocket don't. Most of those (reps) have early succcess with friends and family, that is all the the top guy cares about, he has 10 people working their friends and family, signs a lot of policies and then runs dry. Did they mention the average rep lasts 8 months. Professional agents don't replace perfectly good policies with non convertible term. Professionals ensure thier clients have the best product for their needs. You need different products at different times in your life. Life insurance can also be used to offset taxes and capital gains. You can be sued from families if you make a mistake in your assesment and sell something that dosen't fit. Are you covered for E-O if someone sues you. Life insurance should not be a part time job, it takes dedication and time to serve your clients. Its not about the sale its about the relationship and trust. Professional development is not a weekend task. Its a full time commitment.

  33. LSM Insurance 05/15/2009 at 7:52 am

    Joe,

    Thanks for the note. Most captive agents and independent brokers actually work on commission not on salary. Some firms offer a small base or draw.

    I agree with many of your points. A brokers success will be largely determined by his/her ability to effectively prospect (simply selling friends and family won't cut it) The turnover in the industry is very high - in my estimation this is due to poor training and screening systems.

    A also agree life insurance has multiple purposes and the consumer has to be very careful when replacing a policy. Top agents/brokers make a full time commitment to the business. I wouldn't want to hire a lawyer/accountant who just worked weekends.

    As for Errors & Ommission insurance virtually all jurisdictions require this - in any event it is a must for all advisors.

  34. Observer 05/18/2009 at 8:13 pm

    In my opinion people can do Financial services on a part-time basis. The target market of Primerica are not in need of a complicated plan. They are people who need high coverage amounts and a simple side savings account. That's their target market.

    The agents will say they are covered by a blanket E/O from the company, so they never consider whose best interest is at concern and being protected. CYA....

  35. LSM Insurance 05/18/2009 at 9:14 pm

    Thanks for the note.

    But I still believe the consumer is far better served by a full time advisor who is committed to building a long term career.

  36. Disappointed 05/20/2009 at 2:52 am

    Just looking for a place to vent about Primerica. My husband and I had a term life policy that we have been paying on since @ 1989. For all of that time we had automatic payments coming out of our checking account. During that time we received ZERO communications, mailings, updates, phone calls statements or anything at all. Over the years we continued to pay in good faith thinking that we would receive something sooner or later and didn't want to risk loosing the insurance we had been paying on for so long.
    At the end of last year we closed our bank account and changed banks. We tried to find out who to contact about the change but the bank had no information other than a p.o.box. They said that the insurance company would surely contact us once they were unable to take the withdrawal. We waited for a long time and were afraid that the company had gone out of business...we could find no paperwork and had no policy number to reference. A couple of months later a neighbor brought a letter to my door that had come to them by mistake. It was the long awaited letter from Primerica asking us to update our address information. That's all it said but it was enough for me to contact them finally. I got in contact with a local representative and told her my problem. It took me about 4 months to get a resolution, only to find out that they would not renew my policy based on the fact that my husband had a mild heart attack during that time.
    We even had to pay more money (while we waited for an answer) to pay for the months that they could not withdraw from our account to show that we were keeping our end of the agreement!
    All those years of paying to who-knows-who in good faith and this is how we were treated. In my opinion none of this would have happened if we had received SOME communication over the years. I feel like they got our money and that's all they were concerned with. Based on the fact that we were dropped after all this, I believe it is true.

    I will recommend to anyone who will listen NOT to go with Primerica. Now we are out of luck and in our 50's with a heart attack now in my husbands records. Life insurance is now unlikely.
    Thanks Primerica you screwed us good.

  37. Observer 05/20/2009 at 3:24 am

    Lorne I agree with you, but the sales force does put up the numbers. That's their bottom line. A Term policy for the middle-low income. For that market there's not much disposable income or assets to get too deep into the planning process.

  38. LSM Insurance 05/20/2009 at 8:26 am

    Thanks in response to the above two posts

    #1
    I'm sorry to hear about that. It sounds like your agent left the business or is providing very poor service. You may qualify for a simplified issue or guranteed issue plan. The attached article may be helpful. link to lsminsurance.ca

    #2
    I agree Primerica and most captive agencies have quotas or minimum production requirements for their agents. But this is not the consumers problem. The objective of the consumer (regradless of income level)should be to get an unbiased, trusted and highly qualified insurance advisor.

    Regards ... Lorne

  39. dave 05/26/2009 at 8:35 am

    I came across this article and wasn't sure how your thought process works? You say you wouldn't want a part-time worker doing your finances, well thats silly. Most insurance agents need a sale when they work full-time and come across pushy,lol. As for the price comparisons, well look into the features in a Primerica policy, because it may not be the cheapest but is the house people live in the cheapest? Is the car people drive the absolute cheapest? No it's the best value to the consumer.Price is only an issue in the absence of value.

  40. LSM Insurance 05/26/2009 at 8:51 am

    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for note. Many lawyers work on a contingency basis. Would you want a part-time lawyer?

    I have mentioned this in several posts. Successful full time brokers do not have to worry about the commission from a given sale. They earn a very good living and realize success in this industry is a marathon not a sprint.

    As for price not being the only variable - I agree. An experienced reputable broker has no bias' provides high valued advice and the best priced. A great combination!

  41. Jeff 05/26/2009 at 1:32 pm

    I work in Primerica, let the bashing begin. We helped one family who had permanent life insurance. The husband had 20,000 coverage, the wife had 50,000 , the children had 0. It cost this family 113 a month for this coverage. We gave the husband 500,000 coverage, the wife 350,000 coverage, and 15,000 coverage on the kids. Cost 115 per month. WE help middle income families stop getting ripped off. If you must bash Primerica , get some actual comparisons before you begin. If we can't help a family, and do better for them we don't. We aren't in the business to just make a commission, we are in the business to help families.

  42. LSM Insurance 05/26/2009 at 3:45 pm

    Hi Jeff,

    Thanks for the note. But to suggest that Primerica agents walk on a higher ethical ground than independent brokers is completely false.

    All insurance advisors should be in the business of helping people. Independent brokers have the distinct advantage of offering unbiased advice and the access to the highest value plans at the lowest rates.

    Regards ... Lorne

  43. amanda 05/26/2009 at 3:49 pm

    oh and i can say that for a fact my friend started asked me to do an appointment so i did and they sat there saying would you like to make this kind of money and would you want to do this for a living. i walked into primerica knowing squat. No background knowledge nothing. only thing they wanted was a background check stating i dont have a history of anything that was it. and then they inform you you need to take a course and then another one. i was in debt that is why i asked them over to my house. Then when i was in it they would only help certain families with alot of things like a house. And if they couldnt do that they wanted me to hire people.

    Anyways my question originally was going to be. If i wanted to find long term insurance elsewhere how could i get out of primericas insurance???

  44. M.C 05/26/2009 at 3:51 pm

    and lets face it, the more people primerica helps, the more money we make. we werent just in it for the people, we were in it to make the money. Better yet jeff do us a favor, you go work for free and then say you are in it for the families. If it was onyl for families, we would be volunteering our services

  45. M.C 05/26/2009 at 3:55 pm

    and if you are in it for the families. why the five star families only. Ones who own their own home, have kids, have a job. If you are in it to help families, help all families get out of debt not only the ones where you can help them get out of debt, give them lifeinsurance and every other one out there

  46. LSM Insurance 05/26/2009 at 4:10 pm

    Thanks for the above post.

    The nice thing about this business if you are good at helping people with high valued solutions you will make a lot of money.

    It works in that order. Regards ... Lorne

  47. M.C 05/26/2009 at 4:12 pm

    If i wanted to find long term insurance elsewhere how could i get out of primericas insurance???

  48. LSM Insurance 05/26/2009 at 4:45 pm

    Hi MC,

    If you want a Permanent policy you would have to go elsewhere. This may or may not be in your best interest depending on your current health and policy provisions.

    Regards ... Lorne

  49. andrew 05/27/2009 at 1:50 pm

    just one question for you lorne you said part time workers cant know their information. how many accountants do you know who only deal with taxes. probably a lot i am an accountant and i know many who only work part time, as in during tax season and then don't work the rest of the year, so that rational of thinking is incorrect. Part time people can be just s knowledgeable and up to date as full time

  50. LSM Insurance 05/27/2009 at 3:16 pm

    Hi Andrew,

    Thanks for the note. But you misquoted me. I said that the consumer is better served by a full time broker than a part time captive agent.

    All of our brokers work with a team of full time professionals. We only work with full time lawyers, accountants, mortgage brokers and investment advisors.

    The insurance industry is constantly changing. We work with over 13 carriers and you have to up to date on product, pricing and underwriting changes if you are going to provide your client with the best advice.

  51. Rui 05/29/2009 at 9:04 pm

    Hi, I currently have a term policy ( 20 years) with primerica and pay $77 for $500,000 for me and my wife, do I have to pay to get out of this? Is it a contract? What are some of the rates out there?

  52. LSM Insurance 05/30/2009 at 5:10 pm

    Hi Rui,

    Thanks for the note.

    You cancel any life insurance at any time. There is no penalty costs and Term policy has no surrender charges since there is not cash value. Having said that you should still be very careful when replacing a life insurance policy.

    You will have to do a new medical and the policy will be subject to new suicide and incontestability periods.

    You can get an instant quote from a variety of companies accross Canada at link to lsminsurance.ca or call us at 1.866.899.4849.

    Regards ... Lorne

  53. lmp 06/05/2009 at 2:44 pm

    I am going to my first training course for primerica, and new to this whole thing. Will I have to go out and find my own leads or clients? Does the company provide clients for you, same questions? Second, do they press me into getting my family and friends on the primerica program? I understand Primerica is under sell?

    Thank you

  54. LSM Insurance 06/05/2009 at 5:00 pm

    Thanks for the note. Success in this industry will be largely dependent on a good marketing and prospecting plan. If you're solely counting on friends and family you will not last long unless you're a very popular person.

    Regards ... Lorne

  55. Jason 06/06/2009 at 8:52 pm

    If Primerica REALLY believed in Buy Term and Invest the Difference(BTID), they would sell nothing but annually-renewable term. They wouldn't offer 20YT, 30YT, etc.

    If you REALLY believe in BTID, then 20YT makes absolutely zero sense.

  56. LSM Insurance 06/07/2009 at 8:33 am

    Hi Jason,

    Thanks for the note. Annual Renewable Term i.e policies where the premiums start off very low but go up yearly have very few applications in today's enviroment - and very few companies now sell these polices.

    I'm a big proponent of a well balanced approach to insurance planning. The attached article addresses the issue of Buying Term and Investing the Difference link to lsminsurance.ca

  57. John 06/14/2009 at 10:23 pm

    There are so many reasons not to deal with Primerica or buy their products I just wouldn't know where to begin. First of all, they are the most undertrained sales force i've ever seen. I have been competing with them for more than a decade in a market where they have a large field force. Even the full-time veterans are ignorant about most financial strategies and products. Second, they are not equipped to solve the needs of the client. As Lorne has said, they do not have a permanent policy which is crucial in so many situations. They do not have a disability policy and are not permitted to sell coverage through other companies even though this is a critical part of a financial plan. They're policy-pedlers.

  58. john 06/17/2009 at 8:53 pm

    I am entitled to a claim for deceased wife. But I cannot get Primerica to send out claim forms, seem to get runaround. Any ideas what I should do?

  59. mc 06/18/2009 at 8:20 am

    yup that sounds like primerica to me

  60. LSM Insurance 06/18/2009 at 8:25 am

    Hi John,

    My condolences on the passing of your wife.

    I would contact your agent or Primerica directly. They should send a claimants statement to complete and you would send that in along with a death certificate which is usually provided by the funeral home. Primerica may write your wife's doctor to verify the application information depending on the cause of death or if the policy is less than two years old.

    I hope this helps. Regards ... Lorne

  61. Mario 06/27/2009 at 5:46 pm

    Let me state that I am not a Primerica rep nor a client. My wife is. I am simply an observer.

    How much time you spend working at your business is 100% up-to-you. So the statement that Primerica pushes "Part-Time" is bull. Reps are free to dedicate as many hours per week as they see fit. Some Primerica reps will easily push more hours per week than your typical employee and that includes weekends.

    Of course the more business they generate will impact the people above (or uplines). Isn't this pretty much like any corporate organization?

    Second, the use of the term "Captive Sales Force". When you go to a Ford Dealership...do you expect the sales people to push Mercedes? Of course not. Primerica sells Primerica products, just like Ford Dealerships sell Ford vehicles. If you're too lazy to shop around yourself than that's your problem.

    Third, like any business on this planet, there are good reps and bad reps. The Primerica reps I've met so far are truly dedicated to help people. This is not to say that some Primerica reps are simply in it for the money. I have yet to meet any.

    Fourth - Training. Every Primerica Office will offer training on regular intervals. For my wife, that's twice per week. Training can cover any relevant topic, from new products, to improving customer service, to how to properly fill out a policy form. Some offices (such as my wife's) requires its reps to attend regular training workshops.

    Fifth - Yes, Primerica depends IMMENSLY on recruiting. You know what? So does the military. What's your point?

    Sixth - Insurance. Primerica reps MUST be provincially licensed to sell this and therefore must abide by strict provincial guidelines. The type of policy entirely depends on your needs.

    Yes they push term, rather than whole-life, because they feel YOU as the consumer have better barganing power this way. Either way, a Primerica rep will sell you what you ultimately want.

    Which leads me to "Freedom of choice". No one is under the obligation to purchase a Primerica, or any other financial institution's product. Primerica is only offering an alternative. It's up to YOU the consumer to do your research.

  62. LSM Insurance 06/27/2009 at 8:43 pm

    Hi Mario,

    Thanks for the comment.

    I agree with you the consumer is free to buy from whomever he/she wants.

    This articles simply shares the opinion they are better off working with a full time independent broker.

    Most clients our brokers meet with are busy they don't have time to call five or six companies for quotes. A highly qualified full time broker is aware of industry trends and changes in underwriting guidelines among different companies. They can shop the market for the best value - providing unbiased advice.

    Regards ... Lorne

  63. Mario 06/27/2009 at 10:47 pm

    Hi again,

    I think the biggest issue I see is that Primerica simply doesn't fit the stereotypical business model like other institutions that many people expect.

    Even a broker has his/her favorite portfolios they like to push. Primerica is no different. Any reputable broker / rep / advisor needs to do their research and due diligeance when selecting the ideal package for a client.

    Customers figure that if you don't have a "storefront" where you gave regular business hours, you're not to be taken seriouly. Your insurance licence that you hold is no different than hers - both are provincially regulated.

    As mentioned before, my wife invests more hours than I do and I work 40 hours per week! She's technically on call 24/7/365 year...willingly and at no extra cost. Can you boast that kind of dedication to your customer base? Do all Primerica reps do this? I personnaly don't know.

    The biggest challenge above all no matter what the title may be is customer trust. If you don't provide that....you're in the wrong line if work.

    Regards.

  64. LSM Insurance 06/28/2009 at 8:41 am

    Hi Mario,

    Thanks for the note. I can't speak for other brokers. But our brokers work with over 12 different carriers. Certain companies are uncompetitive on certain products and underwriting guidelines and criteria can vary sharply from one insurance company to another.

    I agree trust is vital a good agent/broker under promises and over delivers. In mind it's hard to build trust when company products have to offered regardless of their fit and competitive position.

  65. Yvonne Finn 06/29/2009 at 9:04 am

    Hello Lorne,

    Seems you really enjoy trying to give Primerica a beating up.
    Why? Are they your only competition?
    I think it is very untrue of you to say that Primerica, employs the one size fits all model of financial services offered.

    What about their complimentary, customized and confidential financial needs analysis?
    Every client and every representative is asked to do one, that way they can have a record of their dreams, aims and hopes to shoot for.

    While it is true that Primerica is not for everyone, (no one thing is) can't you find even one good word for a company that has been around for over 30 years?

    Primerica prefers that its clients become wealthy enough to be self-insured.
    What's wrong with that?
    For those who cannot or do not want do that, then there are companies such as yours.

    Isn't there enough room in your world for that?

    Yvonne Finn

  66. LSM Insurance 06/29/2009 at 11:18 am

    Hi Yvonne,

    Thanks for the comment. If you look through our site we offer critical reviews of life, disability and critical illness policies of over 12 different insurance companies.

    We pride ourselves on offering unbiased advice. As stated in the article Primerica has improved it's competitive position on several Term products. But as a whole I still believe the consumer is better off working with a highly qualified full time independent broker.

    Regards ... Lorne

  67. Observer 06/30/2009 at 10:49 am

    Yvonne, Primerica has been preaching BTID (Buy Term and Invest the Difference) to become financially independent. Where are all the financially independent people they have helped? How can you offer unbiased advice? If that were true you would have your clients shop other carriers. What about LTC, how many different carriers do you have access to?

    As for the FNA it's just a sales tool. I can understand sales. You have a product which your company expects you to use your best effort to make the sale. It's not about the mission or some crusade. It's sales. Sell all you want but don't try to say your the only organization that is doing right by the consumer. That's just not true.

  68. Joe 07/02/2009 at 6:29 pm

    One comment for the Primerica agents. How do you off set taxes upon the last death of a couple with 500000 in investments.....how do you make sure the family gets some money from the estate after the govt takes half.....one answer....life insurance. You may have lots of money at the end but with no life insurance the family gets what left after the govt takes most of it....Also how do you protect a family cottage from capital gians....life insurance.Everyone needs life insurance to protect thier assets when they die if they want to leave something to children or to charity.

  69. Jim 07/11/2009 at 11:25 am

    i will admit right off the bat that i have not read all of the above comments and responses as there are about a million of them. however, from what i have gathered there are some things that strike me as either left out of the conversation, or over emphasized to create a point where maybe one is lacking. primerica offers term insurance because the agents also offer non-insurance investments. the idea being that you pay insurance while you need it -when you are young and your wages support your family- and you invest along the way. assuming you have an investment strategy, the idea is when you retire, you're comfortable, and your kids have been able to go to school etc. at that point, you don't need insurance as much.
    the other thing that whole life agents leave out is that you don't get the vast majority of the invesment income your policy promises, and if you want to use some of the money you do make duirng your lifetime, you have to pay interest on that money, and the amount your borrow is deducted from your policy amount.

  70. LSM Insurance 07/11/2009 at 11:51 am

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for the post.

    A good insurance advisor does not promote one policy over the other. He/she recommends the policy that best fits the insureds needs. Sometimes that is a Term policy sometimes it's a Permanent plan or a combination of the two.

    The advantage of an independent broker is he/she has a full menu and no bias' so the insured can select the most appropriate plan at the best price.

    Regarding not needing coverage at retirement or after the insured's children are full grown. Permanent insurance is often needed for final expenses, estate planning or for debt protection. Many Canadians in their 50's, 60's and even 70's still have mortgages and or other debt.

  71. Paul 07/29/2009 at 6:05 pm

    Hello Lorne,

    Congratulations on presenting a very informative and educational website.

    I was approached at the subway station yesterday by a young woman who asked me if I knew anyone who needed a job (perhaps she assumed that I was out of work). When I inquired what the job was, she advised that it was selling insurance for Primerica. This struck me as a rather odd way of recruiting a salesforce, and certainly did nothing to leave a positive impression in my mind.

    From your experience, is this a typical method employed by insurance companies to attract new employees?

    Keep up the good work.

    Paul

  72. LSM Insurance 07/29/2009 at 7:36 pm

    Hi Paul,

    Thanks for the note. Primerica employs part time agents but I can't comment on their recruiting philosophy.

    As for other companies most career agencies (London Life, State Farm, Co-operators) and independent brokerages require the advisor to make a full time commitment. I think it's safe to say not many recruit on subways. Thanks again for the kind words. Regards ... Lorne

  73. Derrick 08/05/2009 at 10:17 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    I agree with part of one of your previous statements,
    "Regarding not needing coverage at retirement or after the insured’s children are full grown. Permanent insurance is often needed for final expenses, estate planning or for debt protection. Many Canadians in their 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s still have mortgages and or other debt."

    Certainly if an adult has the necessary funds for retirement they could afford their final expenses; however it's true that many people have debts well after the age of retirement. Does your company offer any advice or solutions to clients to avoid that or to assist with becoming debt free? I know this is something Primerica gives advice on to every client and provides multiple solutions to accomplish it. Have you examined a Financial Needs Analysis from Primerica Financial Services? How does it compare to the Needs Analysis that you provide?

  74. LSM Insurance 08/06/2009 at 8:17 am

    Hi Derrick,

    Thanks for the note. Many Canadians like the idea of having a tax free benefit to cover final expenses or to enhance their overall estate.

    Regarding offering solutions beyond insurance planning. LSM has partnered with leading investment, debt, tax and legal consultants to make sure our clients get quality and honest advice from full time professionals. The advice is free. Regards ... Lorne

  75. Tommy 08/11/2009 at 1:22 pm

    My friends and family have had Primerica for yrs,and I have never heard of them being a bad company,unless you all know something i don't please Inform me,I'm currently looking to get a life Insurance policy,if anyone hear know someone better than Primerica please advise me so...

  76. Kerry 08/11/2009 at 4:05 pm

    Hi Lorne,

    I've been reading this thread for sometime now and I see both sides of the discussion. Also note that I am a Primerica agent. I was a client of the company for 4 years before I became an agent, and Primerica has helped give my family a sense of relief knowing that we are properly protected an on our way to being financially independent. We were first shown how to properly, yet affordably invest our money. We now have savings that we never did before. I've seen first hand what Primerica does for families like mine and I want to return the favour. I really enjoy what I do. I also understand that we're in a competitive industry and we all have our opinions. I've seen the mess that other companies create for clients, and then never return to clean it up. But, I've also seen that other companies can do good by their clients. Primerica gets a bad rap because yes we have some bad seeds, but what company doesn't? There's a particular cashier that you don't like at your favourite grocery store. Do you stop going to that store or just avoid that teller?

  77. LSM Insurance 08/11/2009 at 5:13 pm

    I agree the most important variable is the quality and integrity of the insurance advisor.

    Having said that all things being equal I think the consumer is better served by a full time independent broker who has access to a full menu of products and companies.

  78. Daniel 08/19/2009 at 7:45 pm

    Hello,

    I am a financial planner with a different company. However, before joining this company, I was approached by Primerica to join their work force. Through the first presentation, they did their usual speal on BTID, rule of 72, and becoming financially free. Then at the end they asked, and continued to ask if I would bring friends and family in to the next presentation. They gave me no guidance on how to become one of their reps. I recently got yet another phone call to come in and meet with them, and they even called my fiance at WORK to try and solicite her!

    When I joined my current company, I was walked through the process, fully trained, and felt confident to take on the world when I returned from Winnipeg.

    As to self-insuring, I would like to see someone show me a concrete case where a CI, or Whole Life policy, paid up in 20 years and is good for life, is ever more expensive then self-insuring. Also, I can make my clients' Whole Life to be used as another source of retirement income, tax-free, or tax-efficiently depending how YOU want it structured, talk to a true financial planner and they could tell you how.

    Are you okay with giving up 43.7% (In BC) of your RRSP's to the government when you pass away, when your intended beneficiary was your kids? How about the family cottage? Want to sell that too? How are you going to pay for the capital gains tax? PERMENANT insurance. I wouldn't be okay with any of that, I want my kids to get my hard earned dollars. How can I do that? Through PERMENANT life insurance.

    My two cents.

  79. Dennis 08/28/2009 at 7:16 am

    My mom and dad had primerica life policies, I guesse. When my dad passed away last spring, my mom became an agent to offset the loss of dads income and is hoping to become a full time agent. I first must clairify that they are not an insurance company, but a financial planning advisment team which offers life insurance. They know their rates are not always lowest, but sometimes they are. My consern is that once she has tried to sell to all 11 people she knows, then what? Primerica does not advertise, they work off referal business. My mom has not been able to sell any thing yet, after just 3 meetings, but 2 of them want to become agents. My mom, though verry intelligent, is also verry nieve. I'm conserned she will put all her energy into this and come out with nothing to show for it. I know from experience pyramid scheems are just that, scheems. Notice Amway is now advertising on TV. What happened to all their "Diamonds"? What can I do to protect her?

  80. LSM Insurance 08/28/2009 at 8:01 am

    Hi Dennis,

    Thanks for the note.

    You mother is not alone. Most new captive agents and independent brokers have a problem with prospecting.

    It is the life blood of the business. It is crucial new advisors do not just count on family or friends it's a recipe for disaster.

    She could try the following:

    1. Use social medias like Facebook, Linkedin and Twitter to expand her contact base.
    2. Work on centres of influence
    3. Try working with a senior advisors if available on his less active clients
    4. Build alliances with other professionals lawyers, accountants, general insurance agents and mortgage brokers
    5. Put together a monthly newsletter.
    6. Stay in close contact with key clients and prospects, find out about their areas of interest.

    I hope this helps. Regards ... Lorne

  81. scott 09/17/2009 at 8:08 pm

    Dennis first of all if you are married with children you might want to sit down and listen to a Primerica presentation. I started with Primerica 14 years ago and it has been very good to me. By the way noone recruited me I went to them. I had been a client for 5 years at the time I went to them so I knew what they did and understood it very well. It amazes me that people that don't know or understand what they are talking about would even bother to post something on here. If you had paid out several millions of dollars of death claims to families in the last 14 years like I have, and most of them had no life insurance when I originally sat down with them, you would talk from an educated point of view. Not only the death claims I have paid out to families but the investments that I have helped families make has made a huge difference to their standard of living. It amazes me what people say on web pages like this. If you have ever used HR Block to do your taxes they were probaly done by someone that works in the Tax business about 4 months a year. Have you ever thought about that. My advice to you is get with whoever is training your Mom and sit down and see exactly what Primerica could do for you and your family.

  82. LSM Insurance 09/17/2009 at 8:18 pm

    Thanks for the note Scott. I have seen no evidence Primerica has a higher claims paying ratio than any other life insurance Canada.

    As for the H & R representative I would still much prefer a full time accountant or any other professional who is committed to their practice full time.

    In today's enviroment products and underwriting guidelines are continually changing from one company to another. A broker who keeps on top of these changes is going to be able to offer more informed and competitive solutions.

  83. Ken Novak 09/20/2009 at 9:34 am

    I am an independent life insurance broker, in the industry for more than 10 years. I started captive with a MAJOR insurance carrier, and after three years, went out on my own as a broker. Here is the bottom line: NO carrier has all the products necessary to service ALL your clients. Health, age, sex, amount of coverage, type of coverage all affect the premium of a life insurance policy, and NO company offers the best opportunity for each of your clients - which is why any individual looking for life insurance MUST, as part of the process, speak with a broker who is appointed with multiple companies. It took me 5 years to fully understand how to PROPERLY service my clients, and every day I am reading about new products, changes in underwriting, changes in company philosphy, so that I can best serve the ONE group of people I need to best serve - my clients.

  84. LSM Insurance 09/20/2009 at 9:46 am

    Ken you make an excellent point. Regards ... Lorne

  85. David 10/03/2009 at 2:26 pm

    I'd like to add my ignorant point of view to the mix. I have very little experience with investing and isurance companies but I do have an opinion on Primerica. I feel as though I was manipulated by the representative that initially called me asking if I thought of a "career change". He invited me to an interview, and since he had been giving my number from a sucessful business owning family friend, I assumed this was a good opportunity. I dressed up and brought my resume. The representative made a presentation to me, not asking me anything about my previous experience. It didn't take me long to realize this was a sales tactic and not a job interview. Every question I had, he had a rebuttle for, it's as if he had planned to provide arguments for any possible question. I came out of the interview with this information on the top of my mind: Banks are very large, the biggest buildings you see downtown, because their interest rates are set to rip off individuals and make them rich.
    The reason we, the middle class, aren't rich is because we "don't know" what the other 1% know about investing. The thing holding everyone back is fear, fear of instability, fear of risk, fear of loss, this is why big banks can make so much money off of us and why we are doomed never to better ourselves financially. I left the meeting very confused by what he wanted me to do. What I'd do if I were hired. What Primerica even was. All I know for sure that he was pitching me this opportunity somewhat like they sell merchandise off infomercials, lots of descriptive words and flashy presentation, little to back it up with. I'd would have been much happier to have been told about everything less deceptively, I felt like a bit of a fool dressing up for an interview where he was selling to

  86. LSM Insurance 10/03/2009 at 4:12 pm

    David,

    Thanks for sharing your story - sorry to hear about your experience.

    I can't speak to Primerica's recruiting strategies. The primary focus of this blog is to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of Primerica's insurance product lineup.

  87. JL Haynes 10/07/2009 at 5:45 pm

    My wife and I bought a Primerica policy from a person that we thought we knew well enough to trust her. We have found out that she lied about everything about the policy that she sold us. The reputation of a company is only as good as the integrity and honesty of its representatives, and our experience tells us that Primerica is totally lacking in both.

  88. LSM Insurance 10/07/2009 at 7:14 pm

    Sorry to hear about your experience. Regards ... Lorne

  89. Julie 10/13/2009 at 12:22 am

    Well, I have read most of the comments regarding Primerica. I am still confused. I have been approached to join "the team". I don't what to be involved in something as a scheme.I am told I can get my license to sell insurance, refinance home mortgages and sell securities thru them. Is there any thoughts as to the legitimacy of these claims?Can there be a real career thru these opportunities?

  90. LSM Insurance 10/13/2009 at 11:19 am

    Hi Julie,

    Thanks for the note.

    The financial services industry is a great opportunity for the right person. You have to be outgoing and enjoy helping people. In terms of the company pick a company which will support you in growing your business. Prospecting is crucial if they just ask you to contact friends and family you better be popular or you'll be out of business quickly.

  91. Maz 10/16/2009 at 12:55 am

    Hi...

    I haven't been through all the postings with a fine tooth comb, but this thread seems to be the closest thing to what I'm looking for.

    I'm originally from Canada, but am currently working as a financial advisor in the U.S.

    I have replaced several Primerica policies. In most of these cases saving 30-60% on premium, even three to five years into their policies.

    But today I put my quotes up against a primerica policy that had only been in force for a few months and couldn't beat it. Even quoting with a dozen or more of the traditionally cheapest stock companies, (Banner, Genworth, West Coast, etc)

    Does anyone now whether around 2007 or so, Primerica did a major overhaul to their premium structure? The older policies seem so expensive, but the current rates seem to be moderately to very competitive.

    I had gotten used to just assuming that I was going to be able to save any Primerica customer a lot, but I wish to be well informed. Maybe I should get appointed with Primerica... oh yeah... I can't... unless I cut ties with my current company... besides... I'm too old to learn the rule of 72 :)

    Any thoughts or inside info would be greatly appreciated.

    Maz

  92. LSM Insurance 10/16/2009 at 2:38 pm

    Hi Maz,

    Thanks for the note. Primerica has improved it's pricing on several products. I'm not sure when their last pricing change was. Many of their policies are still uncompetitive and they use unisex pricing (i.e. females pay the same premiums as males) This is a good deal for men but a lousy deal for females.

    Another big disadvantage is the policies are not convertible.

    Regards ... Lorne

  93. Rita 11/04/2009 at 5:31 am

    I am a Primerica client and am extremely satisfied with the product I have. Every popular well-known financial expert (i.e. Suze Orman, Charles Givens, Dave Ramsey (FOX NEWS), advocate for consumers to buy term and invest the difference. You will always be better than with permanent insurance cash-value policies.

    Why don't you just be upfront with your readers and tell everyone that they do not keep the cash value when the owner passes away.

  94. LSM Insurance 11/04/2009 at 9:21 am

    Hi Rita,

    Thanks for the note. I think you are missing the point. It's not that one type of insurance is better than the other. Each fills a paticular need.

    Independent organizations like the Million Dollar Round Table and Advocis recognize Permanent life insurance as good value when it fills the right need.

    The key is to find a honest, knowledgable and reputable independent broker who has a full basket of insurance solutions and does not have a bias to one company.

  95. Zack 11/04/2009 at 6:13 pm

    This is one forum that has definitely gotten way out of hand. Who has the time to read through close to 400 posts about whether a company is good or bad? Most of the time, brokers are better than agents representing one company. But seriously, how much back and forth can you do? People will continue to buy Primerica and people will continue to buy from brokers. People will be served well and people will be manipulated. Nobody really cares as much as it looks like in this blog. Buy from someone you like and trust first. No matter what anyone says, an advisor's commissions will always drive a part of the sale.

  96. LSM Insurance 11/04/2009 at 6:37 pm

    Thanks for the note. I agree that consumers are better off dealing with a broker than a captive agent but I disagree that all insurance advisors are influenced by commissions. Our advisors and the top advisors I've spoken to over the years realize the business is a marathon and not a sprint and focus on building relationships. The commission aspect will take care of itself.

  97. Rita 11/04/2009 at 6:55 pm

    By the way what is the million dollar table and who sits on this table? I'd love to research who they are.

    I've quoted reputable individuals in the industry that have names and their own programs.

    Rita.

  98. LSM Insurance 11/04/2009 at 7:30 pm

    The link to the MDRT is attached link to mdrt.org.

    The Million Dollar Round Table (MDRT), The Premier Association of Financial Professionals, is an international, independent association of more than 31,500 members, or less than 1 percent, of the world's life insurance and financial services professionals from 464 companies in more than 80 nations and territories. MDRT members demonstrate exceptional professional knowledge, strict ethical conduct and outstanding client service. MDRT membership is recognized internationally as the standard of sales excellence in the life insurance and financial services business.

  99. alex yaks 11/06/2009 at 8:28 pm

    What would the best prices on a $1,000,000 ten year level policy be for a 47 year old male non smoker with a good medical history who is 6 feet tall and weighs 200 lbs.? I am considering a policy with primerica and want to get a good comparison. Thanks

  100. LSM Insurance 11/07/2009 at 12:30 pm

    Hi Alex,

    Thanks for the note. The top three carriers in Canada in terms of premium on $1,000,000 Term guaramteed renewable and convertible:

    RBC Insurance $117.54 a month
    Canada Life $122.40 a month
    Wawamessa $122.85 a month

    Regards ...

  101. dan 11/23/2009 at 5:48 pm

    I thoroughly respect the integrity shown in your replies. I had an interview with a man who worked for Primerica, attempting to recruit me. it should be known, that the agents use a program, which apparently costs 10 million dollars, which tells the agent exactly what to say, even gives jokes, which made me feel like everything he was saying was basically off a personalized script, after reading posts from different people who had similar experiences.... regardless, from my experience, the man was kind enough, but the majority of the presentation was oversimplifying very complex matters, and the majority of it was focused on telling me how much money i could make, and it was all based on my own referals.

    To sum it up, I felt uncomfortable with the whole situation, and your comments really solidified my inner feelings. That they aren't inherentantly "scammers", but I am not in this for my own benefit, even if they offer decent plans, if its not the best, and I'm limited to theirs only, am i offering the customer the best they can get? or am I, even a little bit, compromising for my own gain... i liked this blog because it actually explained to me alot about insurance, much more than the presentation. So to anyone reading this post who is wondering about Primerica insurance I would say, trust a man, who does it full time, who has your best interest at heart, and can offer you the widest range of services from an unbiased point of view. and for the 15-90 "prospect" employees, ask yourself, am i genuinely benefiting my fellow man? is Primerica the best company for me to help others? Depends on your ethics. i do think a proper analysis into the nature of employee recruitment is very telling as to the true ethics of the Primerica corporation.

  102. LSM Insurance 11/23/2009 at 6:07 pm

    Dan,

    Thanks for the note. Unfortunately I can not comment on Primerica recruiting habits.

    Best Regards ... Lorne

  103. Ryan 11/30/2009 at 7:56 pm

    Primerica will be going public and will not be restricted to Citi products starting in January 2010. Currently, they are limited to Citi products. This will make them available to sell products from many different financial services companies. Seems to be a huge benefit for them. I just signed up as an IBA. I have not done anything with it yet, however, I do like the fact they provide training and pay for you to get your Life License, Securities, and Mortgage Broker License. I paid a $100 fee to take the training classes and then they pay for you take the test with the state.

    I think you are also judging people by saying captive agents are not able to take care of their clients. Fortunately, that is not for you to judge since you do not personally know every captive agent in the business. No matter part time or full time, there will always be certain financial representatives who are not in the business for their clients, but rather themselves. Primerica does hire a lot of people, which is why they are targeted for not having experienced people who are dedicated to their clients, which could be true for any company. I am starting part time and I know I will be committed to educating myself on Primerica's products as well as other similar companies. I will also be committed to my future clients since my current job allows me to be flexible.

    Lastly, I do have to say I do not fully agree with Primerica's hiring tactics. Unfortunately, this is why there reputation has been bashed. Even though I do not necessarily agree with the recruitment aspect, it is similar to any company you work for. For example, I worked for a bank for 4 years. I was a teller and banker. I did most of the processing work, and created stable relationships for the bank, while the CEO was out golfing twice a week making 5 times the salary I was making. Every company has job ranks, Primerica just seems to emphasize it more.

  104. LSM Insurance 12/01/2009 at 9:33 am

    Hi Ryan,

    Thanks for the note. I would be curious to see if any one can provide supporting documentation for Canada. I have not seen any updates that Primerica agents will be able to work as independent advisors starting in January.

  105. Observer 12/04/2009 at 5:06 am

    Ryan before you start there's something you have to consider. Many posters online are former PFS agents. My suggestion to you is if you want to make PFS your home stay away from message boards. Especially considering you say your new to the industry.

  106. Benjamin 12/07/2009 at 11:58 pm

    Whole Life insurance is NOT an investment because it cannot go down in value. It is contractually guaranteed to increase ever year.

    Whole Life insuance is fixed income ASSET CLASS. The rates of return it will earn must be compared to that of other fixed income asset classes (bonds, CDs, treasuries, etc). You can't expect one tool in an asset class to perform like a totally different tool in a totally different asset class.

    A CD or Money Market will not get the returns of a stock or mutual fund and neither will Whole Life.

    Over a 25 to 30 year period of time a Whole Life policy from a mutual insurance company (not a stock company) will produce anywhere between a NET 5.5% to 6.5% (tax free) rate of return. In order to get that return in a taxable vehicle you'd need to be getting around an 8.5% return to NET out at the 5.5% to 6.5%. This is historical FACT proven by any In Force Illustration from a MUTUAL insurance company such as Mass Mutual, Guardian, New York Life, or Northwestern Mutual.

    Term isn't bad and most often a combination of term and whole life makes the most sense. Getting the correct death benefit is first and foremost. I don't understand why some people think it's an "either/or" scenario. I own lots of term and lots of whole life personally.

  107. LSM Insurance 12/08/2009 at 9:13 am

    Thanks for the note. I agree a combination of Whole Life and Term often makes sense it depends on the clients situation, needs and budget.

    Another key point is to work with an insurance advisor who can show unbias solutions from a wide variety of suppliers enabling the consumer to get the best value.

  108. Observer 12/09/2009 at 11:53 pm

    Another option is consult with the elderly. There's a huge market for Final Expense for a reason. BTID has been a round for 30 plus years and I just don't see all the financially independent people that have been pitched through out the years. "I'm just sayin"

  109. Ross Macfarlane 12/20/2009 at 8:01 pm

    Ryan, your comment "I think you are also judging people by saying captive agents are not able to take care of their clients." scares me. I agree that a captive agent may be able to take care of some clients, but there are too many situations in life for one company to provide the solutions for everyone. The only way I could see a captive agent "take care" of their clients is to know what other companies offer and to refer their clients to these other companies when the situation required it, which is in my experience is almost every other time. Every other client I meet does not have the same situation as the last one. Unless you're always going to work with clients in the exact same financial picture including, income, age, and medical history (impossible?), I'm not sure how one company can take care of all your clients. I've never been a captive agent, so I am biased. I've never worked for the banks either. I work for the client.

  110. brian 01/04/2010 at 11:42 pm

    hi lorne
    i was just contacted recently about getting a job with primerica. i am a highschool student, 18 years old, and have not a single clue about life insurence. i do need a job, and this seems too good to be true. i mean i have no education on this subject so im quite apprehensive as to how i will be able to work for this company. they have set up an interview for me this thursday, Jan. 6th. please get back to me before then with some advice as to what to do. keep in mind that i am a student and need the money.

  111. LSM Insurance 01/05/2010 at 11:17 am

    Hi Brian,

    Thanks for the note it is difficult for me to give you career advice without meeting you.

    Setting aside in limitations in Primerica's product portfolio you it will likely take a significant amount time before you draw an income. Your age may also be a hindrance as some people may be hesitant to take financial advice from someone your age.

    If the business is a fit for you it's crucial you find a good mentor to show you the ropes. We have a section on our website dedicated to brokers it may be helpful link to lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  112. Jennifer 01/06/2010 at 12:03 pm

    Hello, I was searching because a feel a little bit wird in regards to Primercia. I bought a life insurance with them. I ahve it for almost 6 years, they have never sent me a statement, nothingggggg, never ever. evrytime I want to speak to someone, they never there, swith to one person to another and up to this day (3 weeks)_ alreay Im waiting to speak to someone to change my beneficiaries. I hate this Company. I am looking for somthing really serious. Can you tell me of a great company to buy 2 different polieis?... Thank you
    Jen

  113. Jennifer 01/06/2010 at 12:08 pm

    Sorry for my spelling. I was writing fast..
    :o).

    Anyway, I need to find a great life Insurance company. I dont feel comfortable with Primerica anymore, well, I never did. Please help me If you know of any life insurance. Please advise A.S.A.P.

  114. LSM Insurance 01/06/2010 at 3:09 pm

    Hi Jennifer,

    Thanks for the note.

    You have to be careful if you are thinking of switching policies - you will to re-qualify for coverage and the premiusm will be based on your current age.

    We work with over 13 different insurance carriers in Canada. You want to make sure the company is a member of Assuris link to assuris.ca. The right company will depend on your needs or type of plan you are looking for. Our contact details are 1.866.899.4849 or info@lsminsurance.ca

    Regards ... Lorne

  115. Emma 01/07/2010 at 10:48 pm

    Ok, I am seeing a LOT of mixed comments and people without accurate information.

    1. Term insurance is the ONLY way to go! You see the whole tax excuse for those with lots of assets. Every single one of those people that I have seen have had investments such as RSP's, stocks etc that would be able to pay the tax bill WITHOUT having to sell off any property etc. and still leave a substantial amount of money for their loved ones.

    2. Do you even know what happens with a whole life insurance (or "cash value") policy??? Well one you are forced to have an "investment" portion.
    That is called your "cash value" of the policy. First you keep putting money in and putting money in each month.. but your "savings" for the first 1 to 7 years depending on your policy is ZERO! .. then you get a 1 to 4% interest rate which with proper investments you can be getting a LOT more! .. then say you want to take some of your "savings" out to go on a vacation. Yes you can take it out. Then when you get home you realize it was actually a loan... thats right! A loan of YOUR OWN MONEY!!! which you pay back with anywhere from 5 to 12 percent interest!!!!!! Then when you die.. they only get the face value of the policy.. so that extra 40,000 to 50,000 that you have put in over the course of your life, THEY KEEP!! Your family will NEVER get the so called savings portion. Plus if you are one who got the policy early in life, you usually end up paying more then you actually get in the end!!!!!! And don't even get me started on Universal Life!!!

    3. Jen ... I saw that you are trying to get a hold of your PFS agent.. have you gone into the Primerica office that your agent is a part of? If you are not sure which one they work out of, go to any of them, and ask for them by name, and they will be able to point you in the right direction. If something cannot be done with the agent, then the Regional Vice President should be able to help you.

    4. Don't remember who said this... but how on earth do you think that a part time person is not as good as a full time person????? Most part time people are working towards being full time! Primerica does not encourage agents to be part time. They encourage them to start part time and then grow and take it full time.

    5. Saw someone who said thinking it might be too good to be true.. you need to change your way of thinking. I have asked a couple multimillionaires what they thought to the "if something is too good to be true, it probably is" quote, and I was told that anyone who believes that is a complete moron. Sorry, but I agree. Your attitude and the way you think determines your life! and if you think like that you are not on the right path, and are going to have a hard life. You need to be positive.

    6. I am sure that there are some things that others have said on here that I am sure I have repeated, but once I get going I cant be stopped, lol.

  116. LSM Insurance 01/08/2010 at 11:03 am

    Thanks for note Emma.

    But we don't believe in "one size fits all" solutions. Some clients are best suited for Term insurance and other are best suited for Permanent insurance. It's the equivalent of saying all clients should be in an Equity fund or Bond fund it depends on their situation.

    Your explanation of the cash value component of Permanent policies is completely inaccurate. Case and Point Manulife and Empire Life both have Universal Life policies with no surrender penalty from day 1. Empire Life also offers a 4.25% guaranteed rate of return on it's guaranteed investment option. BMO offers over 400 investment options on their Universal Life policies including a range of Equity funds from multiple fund managers.

    Regarding the benefits of working with a highly qualified full time broker these have been clearly stated in several posts.

  117. Rick 01/08/2010 at 6:17 pm

    I have to laugh that know matter how many times it is emphasized by every other company, financial institution, educated expert, etc on down the line. The only place that has a one size fits all is PFS. I have been in this industry with my dad for over 55 years of experience and knowledge, dealing with multiple companies, institutions, experts and idiots. I have pathetically rich clients all the way down to the barely surviving by the skin of my teeth, not a one has a one size fits all portfolio. Diversity is the key to surviving and constant portfolio maintenance is a major factor. If you are not with your clients monthly and sell them something to leave them on their own to try to continue to pay and manage themselves they will fail and you are to blame. If your motto is to help people, improve their life through better money management and investments then you need to be full time living and breathing this job. I can not come close to knowing everything even by working 60-70 hours a week because it constantly changes and it is your responsibility to go back and correct the plan you executed when these new laws, and life changing events take place for your clients. If you do not and their plan fails it was you who failed them and if it was because you just sold them a one size fits all fix then I hold you responsible for them failing a this financial independence you sold them on. If they end up broke, poor, distraught and possibly do something terrible to themselves or others then you can accept that on your dis-service that you performed to your fellow man. In the end you will answer for it and that will be when your eyes will truly be opened. If your in it for your own greed and to get yourself rich quick, well that has a way of coming back also. Tread lightly when deciding to do this for a living and talk to people who have been at it for 15 years or longer to get real feedback on how serious and involved this career is. It is not a j o b. By the way my father has been a member of the million dollar round table since 1979. Thanks for listening, sorry to be long winded. Good luck in all you do, and if I don't see you in the future I'll see you in the pasture.

  118. Observer 01/14/2010 at 4:57 am

    Emma ask around and find out how many cleints have become financially independent in the past 30 plus years ALW/PFS has been around. The target market for PFS isn't wealthy clients, so at the end of the guaranteed term period a decision will have to be made. It said Term Life only goes to claim 2-3% of the time.. Death is 100%..

    Now let's consider what if they do become financially independent asset protection comes into play. Do you know in some situations a cash value policy can help with creditor protection? Then let's also consider a Life policy can allow someone to spend their money and hedge it with a life policy using pennies on the dollar. Why not transfer the risk to the insurance company?

  119. James 01/14/2010 at 6:25 pm

    Hi! in regards to "primerica's term is expansive" (see below)
    "Primerica's term insurance policies are very expensive. At the time this article was written, a 50-year-old male non-smoker could get $200,000 of Term 10 coverage for $38.79 per month with Unity Life; the same coverage would cost $65.84 per month with Primerica."

    I find your article very miss leading!! You make no mention there terminal illeness that comes with there policies. Which most of the industry charges for! And you don't give all the information about "products" you sell to clients! Just making mention of how there portfolio is less then adequate. Well I guess thats what happens when a company stands for doing whats "RIGHT" for a client!

    Have a great day!

    regards

    James

  120. LSM Insurance 01/14/2010 at 6:52 pm

    Thanks for the note. Most companies offer a terminal illness benefit (generally paying out up to 50% of the face amount if the insured is diagnosed with less than 12 months to live) as a built in feature. Regards ...

  121. andrew 01/20/2010 at 2:10 pm

    Mr. observer,

    The same question could be asked about your clients who pay a lot more monthly for less coverage on life insurance.

    How many are financially independant? What is your definition of financial independance? Of course we know that is subjective.

    Everyone knows that the true definition of insurance is provide protection during a period when you require it. That's what middle income Canada needs. TERM INSURANCE.

    regards,
    Andrew

  122. LSM Insurance 01/20/2010 at 2:21 pm

    Thanks for the note. I think you are missing the point - many Canadians require insurance for a stated Term in which case they are best off working with a full time qualified independent broker.

    Others require insurance for their lifetime - the point being that you have to look at their full financial picture.

    Regards ... Lorne

  123. Observer 01/25/2010 at 10:13 pm

    Hello Andrew. Ask yourself this. Who is the target market for PFS? Just because PFS doesn't offer a product doesn't mean there's not a need for it in the market place?

    Do you really think the financial services industry is so simple that all it takes is a Life and securities license and then the education stops? Not everyone outside of PFS is a "Cash value" agent. The product should fit the need.

  124. Jen 01/26/2010 at 2:08 pm

    If you have a current term policy with Primerica and now have health conditions, can you renw the policy without an exam and underwriting. Can you just pay the higher rate based on your new age or do you have to requalify? We have 2 years left on our policy and called Primerica for an answer. They referred us to a new agent and told us that we would be given our renewal options at renewal. In 2 years he may not medically qualify so we need an answer now.

  125. LSM Insurance 01/26/2010 at 4:50 pm

    Hi Jen,

    Thanks for the note. If you policy is guaranteed renewable you can renew it without a medical. The rates will be much higher and should be stated in the policy. Your agent or Primerica should be able to provide you these details.

    Regards ... Lorne

  126. citishark 02/12/2010 at 11:16 am

    All this “discussion” goes up in smoke when you take a particular case and RUN the numbers: In my case (male 42 yo non smoker preferred) I was offered a coverage -by a family member “professional" insurance agent, 3 college degrees+CLU+CFP and all, – as follows: $100,000 Whole life policy + $50,000 LEVEL term policy for me at a cost of $236/mo for both policies, $150,000 UL for my wife (Female 36 non smoker) for $189/mo and $50,000 Whole life for one of my kids (5 yo, male) for $76/mo. Out of pocket $500/mo for “a piece of mind”. Cool and dandy. I feel good!THIS IS THE "PERMANENT" SIDE

    I called a friend of mine that works with Primerica and offered me this: $650,000 on me + $450,000 on my wife+ $20,000 on EACH of my 3 kids, in a single 25-years LEVEL term for $93/ mo.

    Real numbers, real people. I let every one of you make up your own mind and make the decision you find suits YOUR purposes if this is your case.

  127. Observer 02/14/2010 at 11:30 pm

    citishark I'm sure you made the decision that's in your best interest, but did you shop the PFS plan against other carriers? Many carriers rate male and females differently not to also mention rate classes.

  128. LSM Insurance 02/15/2010 at 4:14 pm

    This is a good point in some instances the male may be better off taking a Term plan with Primerica and the female with another carrier.

  129. X-Primerican 02/16/2010 at 8:42 pm

    Great information here! I spent a lot of time with Primerica and at one time I argued for Primerica on blogs just like this one. Luckily I had a friend who worked in the industry and patiently worked on me showing me facts, after a few years I finally opened my eyes.

    The thing we need to realize here is that Primerica reps are conditioned to believe that anyone else in the industry is a crook & that other policies are only cheaper because of some hidden gotcha. (They are repeatedly told that there are war clauses, forced conversion to CV products, no terminal illness, other companies don't pay, etc...) I am shocked when I ask a Primerica rep about minor detail that their 25,30,35 year products are only guaranteed for 20yrs.

    I guess what I am saying is that since most of us here have been on both sides of the fence let's hope that we can give these folks the training that they will never get on their Saturday morning training. I love this quote from Coach by Art Williams - “In fact, replacement was a perfectly wonderful thing. It forced competition, badly needed and long overdue.”

    The problem is that PFSers don't realize that he is talking NOW about companies just like Primerica.

    My challenge to all Primerica reps is to do some comparisons & see where your client would be better off. Don't just look at the premium dollar, but the face amount. In my personal case I tripled my coverage for approximately the same as my Primerica policy. I was able to get a true 30 yr guaranteed term with a better terminal illness rider.

    My advice to PFSers is to not believe a word any of us say, but also don't believe the hype your RVP tells you. Just run the numbers and see for yourself. Compare Apples to Apples and you will be shocked!

  130. patrik 02/20/2010 at 3:52 pm

    I work at with the goverment and I've done quite a bit of research on Primerica. The Federal Trade Commission doesn’t call Primerica a scam. Neither does the Better Business Bureau, FINRA or any of the other regulatory agencies in this country. I encourage you to check the facts and to get your information from these credible sources.

  131. LSM Insurance 02/20/2010 at 4:40 pm

    Hi Patrik,

    Thanks for the note we never suggested Primerica to be a scam. But they do have big holes in their product lineup and their rates are uncompetitive at many age brackets.

    All the best!

  132. Rob 03/11/2010 at 2:40 pm

    I have been in the industry for over 21 years and state confidently I have only witnessed one sad tactic from Primerica, the facts are this, they perpetually try to replaced old whole life policies, often without concern if the dividends and cash values are well in excess of what the annual locked annual premiums are.There is no time frame that they will not try to cancel your whole life policy. Just recently they attempted to replace a 17 year old whole life policy. I have even had them attempt to cancel a 20 pay life policy that was fully paid during the AL william's crusade. There is no argument that if you cancels a older whole life policy the only winner in these cases will be the replacing agent placing their best interest over their clients.And you are relieving the insuring company from a death benefit of a whole life policy, in turn you are accepting a much smaller cash value and dividend often being taxed if you do cancel.

    Primerica will deny that they still use the AL Williams tactics of emotions creating a false feeling that you have been ripped off along with alienation of not talking to the adviser you have entrusted often for years.I have witnessed nothing different.

    I have always taken the time to conserve any replacement policy that they try to cancel as their policies are expensive as there are many down-line individuals getting a commission cheques, if these down-line people still work for Primerica. They offer just one size fits all needs.That in itself is a serious void and a insult, as your insurance needs will change over time.

    They place discreet employment adds in new papers seldom if ever stating who you are replying to generally no more then two lines.Why would that be? Any other insurance company that is in the hiring position often spend thousand looking for agents. They offer part time positions, could you imagine a part time Doctor YIKES? They use all their recruits families and friends as sales lead's then then leave these new recruits with a large up hill battle to survive in this industry.

    The bottom line is I believe in term insurance big time as long as it is totally convertible where you can eventually lock up your cost, Bear in mind term insurance is coverage for death during the term 10 15 20 or 30 years. An alternative to this is by a term to 100 lock up your cost and it will likely not be be much more then the Primerica premiums. The fact is this your going to pay, you are eventually going to die and a Term to 100 is GUARANTEED to pay your love ones. The Primerica policy will be so costly in the later years, you will likely not pay the massive annually increasing premiums and you will cancel with Primerica and they will keep all of your 10 20 or 30 years of devoted premiums. The most serious consideration if what if you have paid 30 years into a Primerica policy and you have a major health issue that will shorten your life. You will never cancel a policy, and you will literally being paying THOUSANDS per month to maintain a large PFS policy only to have the premium increase the following year.

    If you have whole life policies never cancel it,add on to these policies if you need more coverage.Purchase only convertible term, or term to 100 if there is a need for term, again Primerica does not offer term to 100.Finally shop for the best term price and scrutiny of the company you are dealing with.If your agent is trying to replace your policies bewars and if they have convinced you to cancel you are entitled to listen to the agent that sold it to you. Remember Primerica will tell you this agent has not worked in your best interest. I am sure if you do meet with him or her you will see they did work in your best interest.If you need term get a quote from the company you are presently insured with and Primerica will be the last company you will want to entrust. We all know there is a certainty of what life offers death and taxes Do you want a policy that may pay, or a policy what will pay TAX free not if you die in the term rather when you die. :-)

  133. LSM Insurance 03/11/2010 at 3:15 pm

    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for the note - I agree cancelling an older existing Whole Life plan with a new policy from Primerica or any other comapny is almost never in clients best interest. If it is a mutual company the client may be forfeiting thousands of dollars as a result of a possible demutilization.

    I think the key part in any insurance equation is to make sure the right amount of insurance is set up and the client finds the best plan within his/her budget to meet that need.

    Regards ... Lorne

  134. Isaac 03/12/2010 at 4:01 pm

    I will admit to not reading all of your entries; however, I did find a common theme that I believe speaks positively to the largely unread number of posts. Being a young agent of three years I applaud you on your straight forward and factually sound advice of holistic financial planning.

    My contribution to your page is based on my experience to date and is only sent because your page is active and you seem to be of moral fibre.

    The principle of life insurance is a remarkably simple one – pay a small amount with a large group to receive a promised amount in the future as opposed to paying an enormous amount individually to save for the same amount – hoping that you are able to have that amount saved when it is needed [self insuring] With this being said there is one and only one kind of life insurance which you should buy and which I sell. “What is right for the client today and what is right with the client tomorrow”

    With very few exceptions many companies spend vast amounts in attracting and training eager people who I am convinced have the desire to contribute to the betterment of their community. For most, starting a career in financial services in today’s changing environment should prepared for as a short disappointing and often heartbreaking experience that lasts from six months to one year. Regardless of the length all too often once commissions start to be retracted and leads begin to dry up the scale of morality slides in a direction of disservice and non-compliance our industry is all too often synonymous with.

    It is on the point of a short shelf life that my Primerica woes are founded. The model that has been alluded to a number of time above involves a candidate to work with their family and friends as 'practice clients' until they are ready to be cut loose and “eat what they kill” as they look for people to work under them. While other models are similar in design the distinction is that said hire is not hired as 1.) Financial advisor, or, 2.) Financial planner or even a service rep, people are hired with the promise of independent wealth and success by start their own office as soon as possible.

    It is my proliferously shared professional opinion, that compared to any other licensed professionals the education and training provided by Primerica is one sided and designed to instil doubt and anger with other companies’ philosophies, not to initially develop a relationship. An advisor must understand capital gains, future taxation, estate preservation and the various policies and products that are applied in various stages of life – Primerica Agents are simply not able to competently discuss these points to any meaningful or financially-literate end. Finally, to last at least these last three years [in my case] you must have the ability and aptitude to comprehend the clients’ current insurance policies beyond the thought of what your commission cheque will look like once you replace the coverage.

    To perhaps spite myself I recommend dealing with advisors who have five to ten years of experience, positive reputations and access to Term insurance, Universal Life, Whole Life and products from other companies.

  135. Miriam 03/29/2010 at 4:29 pm

    "One size fits all"? Not so much. Primerica agents are trained to fit each family's need. And if you are opting for whole life policies, you must not have a very profound background on them. If you did, you'd be aware of how whole life policies cheat clients. The only benefit that whole life policies have are to the agent who sells them. They make more money selling whole life than term.
    Term life insurance allows people to afford the life insurance that they need. Primerica also covers all types of death, including suicide. Wondering why it's more expensive than other term insurance? There's your answer. Come to me with another company that covers EVERY type of death AND will give their clients 40% of their coverage if they're diagnosed with a terminal illness and then we'll talk. Also, Primerica is the only term life insurance company that offers a term over 25 years. And the reason that they say invest the difference is because the goal is to have accumulated in savings what the company was covering you for so that you don't NEED the insurance anymore.

    AND if the insured's health were to change, they wouldn't be out of luck because if, at the time that you sign up, your health is perfect and suddenly you come down with something, the company will pay. Primerica pay more claims than any other life insurance company out there. There have been instances of claims being paid out to people who simply filled out the application... the policy was never even issued and the company paid... that alone would be a reason why people SHOULD buy Primerica Life.

    Primerica is the only company where its part-time AND full-time agents are offered the opportunity to be accompanied to every appointment by a broker. It doesn't matter how long the agent works, what matter is the quality of the product they are offering. I don't care if my doctor is full-time or part-time. If he does the job better than any doctor around, I'm not gonna go to a crappy doctor just because he's a full-time doctor. Common sense.

    The insurance force is like that... you can only work for 1 insurance company. And Primerica agents don't need to search the market because you've got the best value right there.

    You've failed to leave out that Primerica has the best reputation when it comes to paying out claims. I find some of your arguments irrelevant.

    Oh and if you're looking to be insured till the time you die if you outlive your policy, Primerica GUARANTEES the renewal of your policy without a physical... which means you CAN keep your coverage for as long as you'd like. Doesn't matter WHAT you've come down with. That doesn't mean that your term is up, 2 years later you come up with something and you get insurance again. That means that your term is up and you may or may not have come down with something and you renew it.

  136. LSM Insurance 03/29/2010 at 4:44 pm

    Thanks for the note Miriam. I have no evidence to support the notion Primerica has any better or worse claims paying ratio than other insurance carriers.

    As for the the rebewal yes the plan is renewable but the rates sky rocket like any other Term policy in the later years. Term and Permanent insurance both have their place the key point is once the right amount of coverage is determined give the consumer the most choice and the best value.

  137. X-Primerican 03/29/2010 at 7:32 pm

    Miriam,

    Like you I have spent a lot of time in the trenches fighting for Primerica and for over a decade I wore their jersey. I believed that I was truly doing the right thing 100% of the time and I saw every person I ever knew and recruited many of people. For my efforts I was promoted to Senior Regional Leader, won all of the trips, spoke on EPN, spoke at conventions, and made a nice income. The problem is one day I learned what I had been told wasn’t 100% the truth. Please take the time to verify what I am saying below. I am going to go through your post and identify some of the issues that are just not true. You will be shocked once you find out the truth.

    * I totally agree with you on “cash value” life insurance! I’m sure you’re shocked to hear someone else in the industry agree with you. As for the One Size Fits All comment I believe they mean they way you sell the same term to everyone. See as an independent agent you are able to match the client with the carrier that will best service their needs. If a client is a smoker TransAmerica is the best option or if they have diabetes then Banner is better. When you only work for one company it is nearly impossible to do what’s best for the client because you MUST do what is best for the company.

    * Suicide clauses are dictated by the state and is typically 2 yrs. I know of no company that does not cover suicides after the suicide clause is up. This is not the reason Primerica is more expensive – I will explain that reason later. (You have been misled here)

    * Terminal Illness at 40%.... (You will need to get your walking shoes ready on this one) The 40% terminal illness is actually pretty low. With Primerica it is actually 40% of the face amount up to $250k. (which ever is less) With companies like Banner, SBLI, West Coast, Genworth, Farmers, and many other is it as low as 50% or $500k and goes as high as 75% or $750k. Primerica has the lowest terminal illness rider in the industry. (US that is I don’t know about Canadian policies)

    * “Also, Primerica is the only term life insurance company that offers a term over 25 years” Again you have been lied to… Here is a list of companies who offer 30 yr term. (all cheaper than PFS too) – American General, SBLI, Genworth, TranAmerica, Metlife, ING, Banner, Prudential, Aviva, West Coast, Mutual Omaha, Lincoln, American National, Nationwide.

    * There is no way to prove Primerica has paid out more claims than anyone, yet I would say it is hard to believe based on the shear math. Primerica maintains about a 1% - 3% market share of the term market. Because of that I find it almost impossible that they pay more claims then State Farm, Banner, ING, or any of the other Huge Term carriers.

    * “the policy was never even issued and the company paid” – you forgot an important part to that statement. Assuming all underwriting requirements that the claim would be paid. Assuming the client would have qualified for the coverage applied for. This again is standard with the other companies mentioned above. If the clients dies prior to these underwriting requirements being met then the premium would be returned to the client. (The exact same way as Primerica)

    * “what matter is the quality of the product they are offering” – This is a trained response used by Primerica reps (myself included when I was there) and Chris Howard is still using it on his “Overcoming Objections CD” to this day. Let’s look at the quality. – Expensive Premiums, small terminal illness rider, poor spousal conversion, waiver of premium only covers the spouse, and any policy over 20yr is not guaranteed. (I will address that more in a minute) – Does that sound like quality?

    * “Primerica agents don’t need to search the market because you’ve got the best value right there” – again this is propaganda unfortunately. Do your own independent research! You will be shocked.

    * “Primerica has the best reputation when it comes to paying out claims” – more propaganda again. There is no evidence that Primerica pays out any differently than anyone else. Actually I had a client who had to fight tooth & nail to get their sons death claim with Primerica. It was during the 2 yr contestability clauses and Primerica did tons of research before issuing the $600k check. It took almost 4 months to get the claim. If you ask that family they would not agree with you. It is all a matter of opinion.

    * “Primerica GUARANTEES the renewal of your policy without a physical” no disagreement there, but again you left out the important part. You will do so at the new age and you are limited to the coverage you currently have. So the prices are MUCH higher. The when that term is up (based on your age & new term) you pay an even high premium for the new policy. Other carriers offer something similar to this, but most allow conversion to a permanent policy. So that means if your 60 when your term is up you can go into a permanent policy and not worry about the next premium jump.

    So I think this addresses all of your statements you have made. Please take the time to verify what I have written. See I loved Primerica and I was embarrassed when I learned the truth that the company I loved so much really didn’t do what was right 100% of the time for the client; instead they did what’s right 100% of the time for the company & RVP. Here are some little facts about Primerica Life you might not know:

    1. Expensive. Typically 30-70% more expensive than other equally or better rated companies. This means you are getting significately less coverage for your dollar!

    2. Not Guaranteed - (funny how PFS reps never address this!) Regardless of the term you buy 25,30,35 year term is only guaranteed for 20yrs!!!! There’s no way to spin it so PFSers just avoid mentioning it. (that is called lying when you tell someone they are buying a 35yr level term when we know that’s not the case!)

    3. Crap Terminall Illness right - it is only 40% of the face amount up to $250k. Other companies are 50-75% of the face amount and up to $500k-750k. Where is a family better off?

    4. Waiver of Premium is on the primary policy owner not the spouse. (something NEVER mentioned by the PFSers)

    5. Spousal conversion is VERY expensive. Spouse must convert at their obtained age not the original policy age!
    EXAMPLE - Husband & Wife, both 34 yrs old, purchase a Primerica life insurance policy with the husband being the primary & wife as a spousal rider. 20 yrs later the husband dies. The wife WILL get the death benefit from her husband, but decides she would like to keep her own life insurance. With Primerica the wife mus tdo a spousal conversion, BUT, but she will charged the new rate based on her attained age. So she is going to pay the rate of a 54 yr old! Yeah that seems like the right thing to do; right? With other carriers she has her own policy and any changes in her life (Death of the spouse, divorce, etc) does not effect her policy.

    6. Preferred Status is only good for renewals if you reach the end of term prior to age 55. If after age 55 you will be rated Standard!

    7. Primerica rates are all Unisex. So it is much more expensive for women. Other companies offer male & female rates which allows women to get cheaper premiums.

    8. Primerica has only 3 Non-tobacco, 1 tobacco, and 3 table ratings. Other companies have 4 non-tobacco, 2 tobacco, and 6 table ratings. Transaltion better premiums because the company has more options for you.

  138. Observer 04/01/2010 at 1:18 am

    "X" Don't hurt them with facts. As for Whole Life do a bit of research. WL may not be for a person with many responsibilities who needs max amount of coverage for their premium dollar, but it does have it's place.

    What you have to understand is for the market your in Term works best. I will say this. I have seen some people who sat through the BTID KT presentation and did the term but no the investing part. They lived past the term period and the renewals rates hit the roof. Now in some of those situation it may have been better for them to have kept their WL policy.

    Everything isn't black and white.. There's two questions to ask. What if they die and what if they live?

  139. X-Primerican 04/05/2010 at 6:43 pm

    Observer,

    I do agree with you. I have replaced many Primerica policies where there was no investing going on. Since only a small portion of Primerica reps are securities licensed a lot of clients fall through the cracks.

    I do see your about some people being better off keeping their WL policy. It really does come down to a case by case basis. I don't claim to be a WL expert, but I will tell you that before I replace any clients policies I will now make sure I am doing what is in their best interest. I believe there is a place for all products... the problem is too many people sell a product just for the compensation. Somewhere along the way most agents forgot we have a responsibility not only to our clients, but to learn as much as possible in order to provide the best service for our clients possible. My intro into this industry was through PFS and I loved them, but once I found out the truth about how I was deceived and how I deceived clients I swore I would never do that again.

    I do not blame 99% of the reps who post on these forums. They truly do not know what they do not know. Look at poor Miriam she goes to a few meetings and gets all pumped up by her RVP then she goes out into the real world and is hit with the truth. Not by some other agent who has never been in Primerica, but someone who has accomplished the things she hopes to in Primerica. Let's hope she learns the truth then she can at least sell PFS products with integrity.

  140. Rob 04/05/2010 at 8:26 pm

    Can I get valid confirmation if Primerica 30 year term is a guaranteed premium for 30 years?

  141. X-Primerican 04/06/2010 at 8:17 pm

    Rob,

    There are two way to confirm it. If you have a Primerica life insurance policy it is very easy. All you need to do is open you Primerica Life policy and turn to the Schedule of Premium Table. You need to focus on 2 columns on this page. The first column is the Scheduled Monthly Premiums and it will remain the same for 30yrs (or 25 or 35yrs depending on your term) this is what gives you impression that is it level. Take a look at the top of the Schedule of Monthly Premium column. You will also notice an asterisk. Now look down at the bottom of the page and you will see that it says the following for the asterisk.

    "Scheduled premiums may change, but the will not increase above the Maximum premiums."

    Now let's look at the Maximum Monthly Premium column. You will see that the same monthly premium will remain the same for 20yrs, but after 20yrs you will see that the Maximum Monthly Premiums start to go up annually. This is the proof that they are not guaranteed for the full term.

    The other option is to simply call Primerica's Home Office and ask to speak to someone in the life insurance department. Use the information above to ask the questions to get the right answer. Remember it doesn't matter what someone tells you it's what is written in the actual policy.

    I hope this helps!

  142. Rob 04/07/2010 at 6:18 pm

    Dear XPrimerican I must convey your input in this blog has been fantastic,extremely informative, and honest.I only hope that the Primerica agents will see your merit and those that are misinformed such as Miriam will tell what is fact, rather then fiction.

    I have former Primerica agents that have purchased life insurance polices from me. The biggest concerns these former agents were quick to realized was that the future non convertibility their Primerica term contracts.They also factored the future premiums that were totally unfeasible as a result of cost.One must consider in your later years of life, do you want to pay annual increasing premiums to Primerica only consuming your retirement income as death is a certainty?

    The term contracts I market offer the ability to lock up the clients cost prior to age 75 any amount up the original face value and of course no medical requirements.

    Regardless of your net worth today or in the future why would any one pay into a contract for 10. 15, 20, 30, years and then walk away from it? Sadly though with Primerica policy where the premiums change every year after the guaranteed period you may have only one choice. Paying a massive annual premium that will only increase the following year.Or as stated above walking away from their policy, with Primerica saying thank you very much for all those devoted years of premiums.

    XPrimerican with the companies you now represent you can take pride that you offer the proper coverage for the clients insurance needs today with the various good term contacts you offer as well as the clients guaranteed needs in the future.

    For me I offer products as do you now, that will not haunt the clients nor us today or in the future.

    That is what is only ethically right.
    Rob.

  143. X-Primerican 04/08/2010 at 8:01 pm

    Thanks Rob,

    I just remember how embarrassed I was when I realized I didn't really know what I was talking about. I was a pretty big guy in my state with Primerica and I could sell and recruit better than the majority of other PFS reps. The problem is I knew how to sell Primerica stuff, but I didn't have the training to objectively look at my clients situation and make the best recommendations for them. I could sell one life cookie cutter life product, 1 loan, 1 horrible va, and some mutual funds. (some of the mutual funds were very good I must admit, but those were not the ones pushed by the RVPs. They loved legg mason and van kampen and that is what they wanted us to see 100% of the time). I learned that we do what's right 100% of the time actually meant we do what's right for ourselves (the rep, the RVP, and the company) 100% of the time.

    Look at all of the PFS reps who continued to repeat the same inaccurate information. I am surprised someone hasn't mentioned the "war clause" yet. That was something that I was hearing non stop just a year ago.

    PFS reps need to realize that the policies they sell are only guaranteed for 20yrs. So if you sell a 25,30,35 year the premiums CAN, again I will say that, CAN go up to the maximum premiums allowed in the schedule of premiums. (page 3 of the life policy)

    I just want reps to realize this before they sell these policies to everyone they know. Remember people do not buy Primerica they buy the person selling Primerica products. It is important that these reps know the truth. Primerica isn't a scam it just doesn't have the best products & the statement "We do what's right 100% of the time" is a joke.

    I hope these posts help clients or reps looking for the truth!

    ~ Cheers!

  144. X-Primerican 04/09/2010 at 2:34 am

    Important Information:

    Primerica Canada policies are guaranteed.

    Nothing in my post is incorrect when it comes to USA Primerica Policies. As a matter of fact the Primerica rate book even states that Primerica life policies are only guaranteed for 20yrs.

    I just wanted to make sure that there was no situation where my information can be misleading.

    I have never claimed to be an expert on Primerica Canada. My experience with Primerica has only been in the United States.

    I hope this information helps.

  145. Vivian 04/14/2010 at 5:20 pm

    Interesting comments regarding Primerica! Oviously there are alot of people out there who are ignorant regading the life insurance policies available on the market. My family just purchased a policy and here is the story (although I would be surprised to see it posted on this website). I have Bi-polar and my husband is in good health. We have been very honest about our health positions with our insurance companies. We have been insured with State Farm for over three years for $100,000.00 each with term insurance because we don't believe in investing our money for 1-3% return with an insurance company only to not recieve it along with the death benefit as we found out with our first policy(whole life). My insurance premiums (as you would expect) are $36.00 per month as I am high risk. My husband's premium's are only $13.00 per month. Sounds great doesn't it? I called my agent to find ou how much it would cost to increase Andrew's premiums to $200,000.00 because we just purchased a new home and according to Marketplace, mortgage insurange is a scam. My agent told me it would be $32.00. That would bring the total up to $64.00 every month.
    GET THIS MY PREMIUM WOULD INCREASE EVERY 10 YEARS.
    I have done my homework. Primerica offered a 35 year (up to the age of 95) insurance policy with a terminal illness clause that gives me access to 40% of my death benefit AND will not contest the amount of my State Farm policy for the initial two year policy. We are covered for a total of $600,000.00 for a monthly total of $78.00, never have to have another check up and they upgraded Andrew's health status!

  146. LSM Insurance 04/14/2010 at 6:59 pm

    Thanks for the note. The fact Primerica will waive the incontestable feature is a strong feature.

    Sounds like a pretty good deal - keep in the cost will increase dramatically after 35 years and the coverage is not convertible.

  147. Xprimerican 04/14/2010 at 11:46 pm

    Vivian

    Also something else to consider, assuming you are in the United States, is that the 35 yr life insurance policy is only guaranteed for 20yrs. After that the premium can go up. (If you are in Canada this does not apply)

    I agree with Lorne about the incontestable period for the amount of coverage of your husbands previous coverage. Of the 18 carriers I am appointed with only 7 of them will do this!

    I hope this information helps!

  148. Sandy 04/23/2010 at 8:27 pm

    Hi There!
    I realized that this way awhile ago in the blog but I can't help but notice that there are some big companies missing from the quotes you gave Alex. Where is Transamerica and Equitable Life??

  149. LSM Insurance 04/24/2010 at 8:29 am

    Thanks for the note. I'm not sure of the post you are referring to but you can get instant quotes from a variety of carriers at link to lsminsurance.ca

  150. Arlene 04/30/2010 at 3:13 pm

    Primerica became a public company April 1st, 2010. Stocks went up 31% the first day. How much have your stocks went up by in the first day?

  151. BY 05/06/2010 at 8:39 am

    I didn't honestly even read all the comments -from what I saw on the original post: the biggest thing about Primerica is that the solution to your financial situation is NOT the same as the people next door. Not at all. They sit down and teach you what schools don't about money. They teach you how to do what the bank does so you can get ALL of what you earn and make the best of it. If you need whole life insurance- they will and I have seen them get you whole life insurance. I have even seen them recommend it. And, they don't make money from you - they make money from the companies that they end up getting you insurance through. That's how any business works - you bring a company business - you get paid for it. It's not the client's money at all. And, have you thought about the fact that maybe ...MAYBE you are spending a little more on the insurance but it is one of the only companies that actually insures all the money you have in there so if anything at all happens - you still have all your savings. Try paying less somewhere else - see what happens to your 500,000.00 in life insurance or savings when the company falls below.

  152. LSM Insurance 05/06/2010 at 9:33 am

    Thanks for sharing your comments. I agree getting a good advisor is key but I see no evidence to support that Primerica advisors are any more qualified than other advisors. I also see no evidence that are more financially stable than other leading insurance companies.

    Another thing to consider Assuris covers all member companies in Canada in case of insolvency for the greater of $200,000 or 85% of the policy face amount.

  153. Geoff 05/18/2010 at 2:01 pm

    I read your article with growing disbelief. You obviously have no familiarity with Primerica's products. Not one of your 5 objections are truly valid. People should not ask a competitor for an opinion of Primerica nor its products. Some of these responses also show an alarming tendency to absorb and run with whatever factoid is stumbled across without regard to the source. Primerica just floated an IPO on the NYSE. Look into that to see how strong and stable they are. Ask one of their reps to explain their corporate philosophy behind the need for insurance, and to explain the particulars of their policies to see if it makes more sense to you than a competitor who is trying to push a bad product on you.

  154. LSM Insurance 05/18/2010 at 2:28 pm

    Hi Geoff,

    Thanks for the note. We're unsure how you can say the points are invalid.

    They are simple facts 1) Primerica does employ a captive sales force 2) Encourages agents to start on a part time basis 3) has an incomplete product line up 4) Their Term plans are non convertible.
    5) some plans are very well priced - others are uncompetitive

  155. Jaime 05/27/2010 at 10:55 pm

    Why would a child with a disabilty need life insurance? Who's depending on that child's income? Seriously, though you don't cite any evidence that Primerica agents are any more qualified than agents from other agents, you don't cite any evidence they are less qualified. And as far as financial stability- Primerica has one the BEST reputations for paying death claims in the entire industry, and ultimately, isn't that what matters? If the companies you represent are on a like solid foundation, why don't you market on the strength of your products?

  156. LSM Insurance 05/28/2010 at 7:23 am

    Thanks for the note. Depending on the type of disability or illness that child may decide to have children of his/her own one day and may require insurance.

    We have never said Primerica agents are more or less qualified but we do contend the public is better served by a full time broker than a part time agent.

    There are product reviews of all insurance companies across Canada throughout our site.

  157. Rob 05/28/2010 at 11:32 pm

    James, I challenge you to substantiate your statement with documented facts with you stating Primerica has one the BEST reputations for paying death claims in the industry.

    With regards to insuring children, the best reason to insure a child is two folds to offer that child additional guaranteed insurance regardless of their health in the future, several of our children, experience major health issues in later years and could be uninsurable. Sadly I have whiteness that the parents of child that has died, are in much needed time off from work,often more then thier employers offer,this is when the proceeds of their child policy gives them the ability to do so. That said the parents must be properly insured prior to insuring their children.

  158. Jay 05/31/2010 at 7:36 pm

    Monday morning quaterbacks are great... but here's the deal. This sights seems to have a recurring theme in thier gripe with Primerica or it's reps. Over priced term policies. Let's hit pricing... the reason I named this response Monday morning quaterback is because the average "advisor" or Life agent, captive or not sells some type of cash value, as a matter of fact about 67% of all new policies sold are a cash value type, i.e whole life, UL, etc. So when Primerica comes into the picture they offer a term product that is competatively priced, not the cheapest, but competative and replaces the CV policy usually offering the client more coverage at a lower premium than they were initially paying. I would ask you to find me ONE credible third party source that says a cash value policy is the best product for the working class to provide appropriate death benefit coverage. Primerica's average death claim paid and average face amount is almost DOUBLE the industry average. It's amazing how 7 out of 10 policies sold is not term but most life agent contributors want you to buy a CHEAP term after Primerica has educated the consumer on the right way to purchase life insurance coverage. If the industry was doing the RIGHT thing for middle income america then why doesn't the industry beat Primerica in Face Amount payout averages per policy? hmm Can someone say Monday morning quaterback

  159. Jay 05/31/2010 at 7:55 pm

    Now let's talk about the Part time "advisor" grip. Every licensed agent at primerica has a Full time supervisor and supervision staff that monitors what they do with their clients. As a matter of FACT Primerica has one of the highest compliance standards when it comes to supervising thier 100K+ licensed Life agents and 25k+ securities Lic reps. Before any solution is presented to a client they have been thoroughly reviewed by a Full time agent in a supervisory role to make sure it is suitable for that client based on the analysis document a client completes during the 1st visit. My experience has been most of those CHEAP terms have had a major down grade in there finacial strength out look do to the underlying investment portfolios used as collateral to keep thier reserves on level to pay out claims. I have also noticed at least three articles that comment on the increase in premium rates due to the recent downturn in the market in the last few years. Most companies term products across the board have raised thier rates making Primerica's term that much more competative, again not the cheapest but very competative. LIMRA had an atricle dated 5/25/2010 stating Term Insurance is the only Life insurance product that had negative sales for the 1st Qtr of 2010 over 1 Qtr 2009. Yet WL was up 15% during the same thing period. Again, it shows the trend of what the industry agent is selling in the market place. And the market place is made up of mostly of middle market. Monday night quaterbacking again don't you think?

  160. Jay 05/31/2010 at 8:00 pm

    One more thing I also noticed on this blog was the idea that since primerica has such a limited product line to offer differnt insurance products to thier consumers you as a client should look for someone else to give you the FULL service. Hmm, where do i go with this one... Middle income america is stretched to the gils, how many insurance products do they REALLY need. In a perfect world we would all have enough money to buy every type of insurance known to man to protect against all risks, no matter how obscure they may be, but that's not the real world is it. I sit with familys and they have two major problems, middle income, working class that is... too much debt, not enough money for savings. So spending EXTRA dollars on non-core insurance would be rediculas. Basics, you need a good health insurance, proper amount of life insurance & auto/homeowners insurance, and maybe a short term disability policy if you can get it through work, then you work on paying down debt while creating an emergency fund and alotting money for retirement. So let's look at some of the other insurances these agents would like you to have, that would serve you better than paying for the above I just laid out... anyone want to make a case on any other types of insurances the average working class NEEDS to spend money on, let me hear it. An before I forget, the're better products out there for estate planning than a cash value policy, please that argument is so 1980's... With the way the finacial regulations are rapidly changing you need an estate planning division not just one insurance agent/advisor to handle this aspect of a clients portfolio, and for the average middle income worker out there this is not for at least 20-30+ years down the road, luckily for Primerica Clients they have access to a Wealth Management Team through one of our affiliate companies, and no it's NOT Citi. Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

  161. LSM Insurance 06/02/2010 at 2:11 pm

    Thanks for the notes. RBC, Manulife and Canada Life all very stable companies have lowered their Term rates in recent months. Moreover these policies are convertible without a medical.

    As for the part time point as stated in multiple posts we feel the consumer is better served by a full time, highly qualified independent broker.

  162. Paul 06/10/2010 at 12:23 pm

    What people should consider is the level of training and understanding of Personal Financial Planning and life insurance the average Joe who goes through the Primerica cookie cutter 'training' regimen has. There are all kinds of potential pitfalls for both they and their clients; duty of care, statutory conditions, liabilities, proper conduct. I would not want a doctor operating on me who learned how to operate in his spare time to pick up some extra money. Why would anyone trust their entire estate planning and financial well being to what amounts to, and I am sorry if this offends, but a part time hack and a company that is a pyramid based scheme to harvest poorly suited contracts and deals in volume. No wonder they have a good payout record, they are charging huge rates and writing any business that comes their way. Fast food life insurance and estate planning.

  163. McMaster 06/13/2010 at 11:57 pm

    Its funny when people get advice about one insurance company from another (compeditor). If you read ANY financal book written by 3rd party professionals such as Suzie Orman, The Dummies Series of books, just to name a few, they ALL say BUY TERM and INVEST THE DIFFERENCE IN LONG TERM MUTUAL FUNDS! NEVER BUY WHOLE LIFE INSURANCE! THE ONLY PERSON THAT PROFITS IS THE AGENT!

  164. LSM Insurance 06/14/2010 at 10:49 am

    Thanks for the note but it is our view as well as the view of numerous third party sources including:

    1. The Million Dollar Round Table http://www.mdrt.org
    2. Advocis The Financial Advisors Association of Canada http://www.advocis.ca and
    3. Investment Funds Institute of Canada link to ific.ca

    that one size fits all insurance solutions are not in the best interest of the consumer. The key is do a complete needs analysis and a selection of correct coverage to fulfill that need sometimes that is Term insurance, sometimes Permanent insurance and sometimes a combination.

  165. J 06/15/2010 at 12:02 pm

    People with money and financial savvy have whole life and permanent life insurance. Broke people have term insurance. That's it. Period. Equitable Life Whole Life Insurance has been paying over a 7% dividend return year after year, even in 2008 when everyone else's portfolios lost -30% and more! Long term mutual funds are terrible these days and are subject to taxes whereas whole life and permanent insurance is tax free and can be leveraged with a bank so you never pay tax! Again, these products are for financially SAVVY people, not people who worry about paying their bills. Poor people buy term and Primerica

  166. LSM Insurance 06/15/2010 at 2:17 pm

    Thanks for your comment. A lot of wealthy buy Term insurance - it depends on the need and the clients budget, goals and objectives.

  167. Sean 06/18/2010 at 11:30 am

    J, are you talking about equitable life making you a return of 7% on investments or is the dividend you refer to a return of premium overpayment, which is usually what a dividend from a whole life company is.

  168. LSM Insurance 06/18/2010 at 12:55 pm

    Thanks Sean the attached article may be helpful it looks at the Participating Whole Life dividend scales for different life insurance companies in Canada.

    link to lsminsurance.ca

  169. Rob 06/18/2010 at 1:13 pm

    Sean: You knowledge of dividends it apparently solely what you have been trained by Primerica which of course you think is correct.The fact of the matter it is not a over charge in premiums rather it is profit from the company that you are dealing with.Point in case, if your theory is correct then any company life insurance or manufacturer that is paying dividends is over charging? As you can see from Lorne's attachment the dividends are great returns considering that these dividends can be totally taxed sheltered in the form of paid up additions with the pleasure of having a locked premium. If you are so concerned with insurance companies over charging in premiums, just compare how expensive Primerica is against any other company term that is NOT convertible such as Primerica.Perhaps you should do more research before making statements on this blog.

  170. Observer 06/19/2010 at 9:39 pm

    Let's look at real life. How many clients carry their term policy to end of Term? It's said only about 2-3% of term policies get to claim.

    Now lets look at seniors. How many as a whole are financially independent and have no need for Life Insurance? BTID sounds good and looks good on paper but people have to stay with the program. As a whole it's just not happening.

    So long term is Term better than a permanent product? Ask yourself this when your making your proposal. What if they don't save and live? BTID is pure speculation. Permanent products can be designed to give guarantees. (Of course depending on individual products. Term and Perm.)

  171. Sean 06/21/2010 at 9:57 am

    Rob,
    Actually I am an investor. If I want to purchase a dividend paying investment I will purchase one that I actually own an equity share of the company, not overpay my insurance premium to make it easier on their underwriters. Then they charge me a processing fee on my overpaid premium and then return some of it to me. From an investors standpoint it is a less than zero sum game, figuring out the benefit of the actual insurance policy which I expect to pay for hedging my risks(my family losing my income).

    Insurance policies can be utilized as part of a tax shelter strategy, but what you are suggesting Rob is smoke and mirrors. Are you by chance a whole life agent?

  172. LSM Insurance 06/21/2010 at 10:33 am

    Ron, there is no such thing as a whole life agent. There are two types of insurance advisors 1) captive agents (who represent a limited number of carriers) and independent brokers (who are free to work with any insurance provider) An insurance advisor has an obligation to explain all the potential options available.

  173. Rob 06/21/2010 at 12:12 pm

    Ron: I refuse to have you drag me into a argumentative blog, thus I will stay focused on the facts.Dividends again are not over payment of premiums,dividends are a form of profit sharing. I am not sure what you were referring to about processing fees with dividends? Life insurance dividends are to the best of my knowledge paid out by most companies with no fees, however taxation must be paid for relinquishing them. If left within a policy and purchasing paid up additions there is no taxation what so ever.

    Ron if you enjoy dividends growth as an investor, would you not enjoy it more tax sheltered within a insurance policy rather tax paying taxes?As common knowledge dividends have no guarantees what so ever.Lorne web pages show a great rate of dividend performance, again these are facts.

    Legal tax shelters are a fantastic in estate planning.Ron where would you suggest to place money or enhance estates without increasing the tax liability to Revenue Canada?

    There is no smoke or mirrors in any of statements what so ever,just facts.And you last incorrect statement,there is no such thing as whole insurance agent.In 21 years as a life underwriter I have ethical ability to offer my clients various investments,long term care, critical illness, disability income and 15 different life products including convertible term that is far less premium then Primerica.

    I was once asked by a Primerica agent if whole life is the answer to every clients insurance needs, my reply to that was clear and again fact. I stated that having every ones needs met with whole life would be as ludicrous as having every ones life insurance needs met with one term insurance such as Primerica can only offers their clients.Ron Are you able to meet all of your clients insurance needs with who your are contracted with?

  174. Sean 06/22/2010 at 12:10 pm

    Rob;

    I don't believe I am dragging you into anything as you were the one telling me to get my facts straight and that I must have got my info soley from Primerica.

    The fact is that life insurance companies that pay policy dividends also happen to be the same companies that sell whole life insurance. We all know you pay a whole lot more for the same coverage as you would on term. We can argue back and forth the merits of the whole term vs whole life. Both have their place.

    The point I am trying to get across is that dividends being paid out inside a life insurance policy is not a true dividend. It maybe pays another portion of the policy for me, but it does nothing for me. It is NOT an investment. The only one who benefits from this is my beneficiaries after I die. I will take my insurance needs for estate planning into consideration for tax purposes as well financial needs that I want to have covered for my surviving family.

    What I don't like is when this is sold to people as an investment that is tax sheltered. I get no benefit from this as an investment. I pay too much for the coverage and they give me some back later as a 'dividend'.

    You can spin this however you like, but when I have a dividend paying investment I also own equity in the company as well. And, you are correct in the fact that there is no guarantee of dividend in common stock, but there is in preferred stock, but I will also pay a premium on my already overpriced policy for the benefit of receiving a 'dividend'. And yes, there will be a processing fee as there is no such thing as a free lunch but at least with any true investment this fee will be disclosed to me.

    Insurance is risk protection, not an investment, and anyone I have talked to about this have been sold on it as an investment, by guess who, the agent.

    Answer me this, if I have a participating policy paying me a dividend and this is 'paying up' my premiums on my whole life policy, when I die does my family get the cash surrender value that is the 'savings' portion as well as the policy face amount?

  175. Observer 06/29/2010 at 6:21 pm

    The CV is part of the policy. The dividends can purchase paid up additions. Yes per definition a dividend in a participating policy is a return of premium. The policy holder is part owner so the company will charge a bit more and then if possible they will return part of the premium. (Keeping it simple)That's why the dividend itself isn't taxed but anything earned above premium will be taxed.

  176. Sean 06/30/2010 at 1:04 pm

    Observer;

    If I was part owner of the company I would be able to sell my stake or keep it independant of the policy. I am not an owner because if I quit paying my policy I will quit receiving my 'dividend' and my policy will lapse.

  177. tom 07/14/2010 at 4:56 am

    in one of your post to Kim you say that you can borrow from your cash value immediately, up to 90%, but historically there never is any cash value built up until atleast two sometimes even three years into a cash value policy. so what money are you talking about? 90% of 0 is 0! the reason there is no cash value built up in these years is because the agent's commission is being paid in those intial years. Also, why do whole life policies make more sense for estate planning than a simple term policy? If i have a 30 year mortgage for 200k than a 30 year term policy with a 200k face amount will cover any unforseeable deaths is a perfect estate plan. right or wrong?

  178. LSM Insurance 07/14/2010 at 9:17 am

    Thanks for the note. You are correct most Whole Life policies have very little cash value in the first 2 or 3 years but this has very little to do with the commission structure. Many Universal Life policies another form of Permanent insurance generate cash value from day one.

    Successful agents / brokers do not worry about commission. If you do a good job the compensation will follow via passive referrals and repeat business.

    If life insurance is needed for estate planning a Permanent policy (Whole Life, Universal Life or Term 100) is needed because the insured may leave beyond the 30 years.

  179. Justin Cooke 07/27/2010 at 12:47 pm

    My wife is actually writing the provincial sales exam for Primerica right now. I have signed an IBA but have not taken the course yet. Here are my thoughts:

    I recently signed my life insurance over to Primerica for Term 30. They pointed out that my former Sunlife policy was horrifically expensive AND not what I needed - and they were right. I'm paying half of what I would have with SunLife to cover myself AND my wife (rather than myself only) for the same value. The main reason they push Term is because of the combination of investment strategies and insurance - if your debts are paid and you have sufficient cash and assets to retire, why would you waste money on life insurance which is frankly a scam in and of itself anyways?

    Yes, they do push Term as the fix-all. I don't necessarily agree with this, and neither do our advisors or my wife (after training). Universal and Whole Life do have their places, as does T-100 (which, as far as I understand, Primerica sells). What it boils down to is how SMART and HONEST your agent is. We have been told, by our trainers, to only sell what the client needs and if this means we don't make a commission or have to walk away because we do not offer the products they need or want, so be it. That is how proper, honest sales are conducted. Who wants a pissed-off customer (or relative/friend) slandering you through your consumer base anyways?

    I do agree I dislike the MLM component, but it seems thats how EVERY company is going these days. I do feel "pushed" into recruiting, and I hate the synergy BS they throw at you at the meetings. I was trained at a young age in the old-school "Quality comes first, customer comes second, and profit will follow" mindset where honesty might not bring in several small fish a day, but it will land you the big fish every week, and I will not sell my ideals for Primerica hugs and feel-good speakers.

    As for training, as I mentioned I have not been through it yet, but my wife tells me that her trainers refused to speak of Primerica or any particular insurer during or after the course. They offer an extremely unbiased approach and only cover the solid fundamentals of life insurance and investments, as well as ethics involved in such. She asked a few questions regarding Primerica during the course, and was told to refer back to her office since the course was not focused on any particular provider and was strictly a provincial licensing course.

    As for part-timers, again it boils down to finding an agent you trust. You should be able to tell if the person is in it for the paycheque or offering you quality advice within a few minutes. If they hesitate to answer ANY questions, including difficult ones or any regarding what you've heard about their company, walk away.

    My 2 cents.

  180. LSM Insurance 07/27/2010 at 2:12 pm

    Thanks for sharing your insights.

  181. JAYMJAY 08/28/2010 at 11:23 am

    WOW ALL I AM GOING SAY IF U STICK TO THE HEAR SAYS AND OTHERS EVEN IN THAT TOP 5 CRAP THATS A JOKE I AM SORRY I HAVE USE THE WORD CRAP. IF A COMPANY SAYS WILL TRAIN U PART TIME OR FULL TIME U HAVE A CHOICE AND U STILL HAVE THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX WITH YOUR MINDSET. HOW CAN A PERSON THAT WANTS TO JOIN THE COMPANY START? THAT IS ONE UP TO THAT PERSON AND TO NOTHING WRONG WITH GIVING THAT COMPANY A CHANCE TO TEACH U. THAT TOP 5 QUESTION THING IS A JOKE BUT PEOPLE LOVE IT. ON SITES WHEN PEOPLE BREAK DOWN COMPANYS FALSELY WITHOUT TRUELY GETTING FULL KNOWLEDGE. WHAT ELSE IS NEW ON THAT THOUGHT. I DON'T WANT TO DO ALOT OF WRITTING ON THIS SITE THERE IS JUST WAY TO MANY PROBLEMS TO GO THROW AND WRITE ABOUT ON WHO'S WRONG AND WHO'S RIGHT. I JUST STARTED PRIMERICA I KNOW ITS HARD. SO WHAT? I KNOW I AM PART TIME SO WHAT? THATS FOR NOW ANYWAYS SO I CAN LEARN AS MUCH AS I CAN..NOT FROM HEAR SAY!! I WANT TO BE IN IT SO I KNOW AND IF I GET OUT OF IT. IT PROBABLY WILL NEVER BE POSTED FOR WHAT? AND FOR WHO TO READ WHAT A JOKE. BUT MOST SITES THAT HAVE JOKERS SORRY THAT RESEARCH BAD ALWAYS HAVE MANY WORDS TO SAY ABOUT OTHERS WITHOUT FULLY BEING THERE DID I SAY FULLY, YEAH FULLY BEING THERE BUT ANY HOW READ ON OR OVER IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER TO ME I AM STILL A GREAT BUSINESS MAN AT HEART AND I ENJOY HELPING OTHER PEOPLE AND IF THAT HURTS THAN FIRE ME. BUT I AM NOT GOING GIVE UP LEARNING. FOR THAT GIRL THAT WANTS TO BE IN PART TIME IF THERE ISN'T ANY JOBS OUT THERE I AM NOT SAYING TO JUST DO IT. IT IS HARD AT FIRST BUT WHAT I AM DOING IS I HAVE A PART TIME JOB AND SINCE PRIMERICA IS FLEXIABLE I WIN IN THE END BOTH ON MONEY,SCHOOL,ACCOUNTING,FINANCE,ETC ITS ALL ABOUT BALANCE TO ME WHY I AM STILL ON THIS EARTH. BUT GOD BLESS U ALL THANKS FOR SKIPPING OR READING.. AND SORRY ABOUT SPELLING AND EVEN GRAMMER.,,JUST TIRED.

  182. JAYMJAY 08/28/2010 at 11:28 am

    my actual other question is how comes the other banks don't have to much negatives when the actually do? but no one doesn't care about others only the onces that have alot of hear sayers and no facts that are actaully justfied. lol all i can do is smile..and just be happy i am no where around this type of mix up essay writtings. just tired of reading it gets weak if not covered probably with some good facts.

  183. Observer 08/31/2010 at 2:43 pm

    To be successful at Primerica stay away from message boards and don't look outside the company for any education. People join the company/industry to make money. As it's a part-time venture why leave potential money on the table. If you see a need for a product why not contract with a provider and offer it to the client?

    The answer is because PFS doesn't allow you to..That's potential extra part-time income you lose out on...That's kind of like putting the needs of PFS before the needs of your family. It's your license(s). You found the prospect but PFS dictates how you run "your" business.

    Think about it. PFS isn't a bad company just know the true opportunity cost.

  184. Mike 09/02/2010 at 3:02 pm

    Just to clarify the cost issue and limited product offered by Primerica, I thought I would put my two cents in. (I have been an agent with Primerica for more than 10 years).

    Primerica’s unisex pricing makes their pricing not always the cheapest but their term rates are very competitive when sold as a package.

    By selling one policy per family you only pay one policy fee instead of two. (A savings of about 80-100 dollars a year. The savings are even larger if the children are sold their own policies).

    Primerica offers a discount for the total coverage of the policy not on individual coverage amounts. (i.e. 250,000 for husband + 250,000 for the wife qualifies for 500,000 per unit pricing.)

    Most insurance companies prefer selling individual policies for each family member. By doing this they collect more in policy fees and charge a higher rate per 1,000.

    When you compare Primerica's term rates in many cases Primerica's rates are very competitive when you compare pricing on the total policy face amount basis.

    This is especially true in the Preferred and Preferred Plus rate categories.

    I will give you Primerica's term products are not always the cheapest especially for single females, but this a function of the unisex rates.

    There seems to be some confusion as to length of the coverage offered. The newer Primerica product called “Custom 5” is renewable to age 95, exchangeable after 5 years to annual increasing premium or decreasing coverage to age 100.

    The client can also convert to a newer product if they choose, with proof insurability.

    As for your continued point of not being able to convert to a permanent coverage ... this is a philosophical one for Primerica. Why convert to a product it does not believe in?!*

    Converting to permanent insurance is like having the programing function on your old vcr. Great idea , but since most of us couldn't set the clock ... programed recording was never used.

    The conversion to permanent insurance is rarely suggested by the client ... but is sold by the agent. Just another way to sell a new policy and keep the client on the books.

    The bottom line ... Primerica is not trying to be all things to all people (or sell all things to all people) but rather focus is on helping families get the coverage when they need it, to become self insured with their own cash, not promoting a long term need for life insurance.

    As for using insurance to deal with taxes or a child with a long term disability there are better options available other than insurance. (i.e. formal trusts, disability trusts, and corporate structures etc.)

    Anyway that is my two cents.

    (*Since many term products that allow conversion to whole life require a medical at time of conversion if a client really wanted permanent insurance they could apply with another insurer if they wanted to in the future.

    Of course if we have done our job they would not need it ... )

  185. LSM Insurance 09/02/2010 at 3:44 pm

    Thanks for the note.

    Why not provide the consumer with the best available insurance solution in any situation.

    Each insurance company is competitive in different areas and at different age brackets and coverage amounts. Empire Life, Manulife, Transamerica also offer multi life policies with a conversion where the policy is convertible without a medical to a Permanent plan.

  186. Cynthia Ramsey 09/03/2010 at 6:05 pm

    PRIMERICA IS NUMBER 1, best life insurance out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  187. tina 09/03/2010 at 7:29 pm

    Manulife offered me single medical coverage ONLY...no life insurance etc.... at $135.00/ month in November of 2009 (after the company I worked for closed it's local site and I had called to convert my worker's policy to private)
    I am a Canadian smoker in the 40-50 year age bracket.
    Simply a comment

  188. Observer 09/03/2010 at 8:25 pm

    Mike one problem is when you say "Of course if we have done our job they would not need it" you are using your (PFS) limitations as a standard. Something I learned once I left PFS was there were many things I didn't know that I didn't know.

    Once a person has all that cash which is not guaranteed what happens if there is a health issue or major life event within the term period or as the premiums are increasing or the face amount is decreasing? A conversion could lock in a face amount and premium. Given the economic hard education people have gone through today many are looking at guarantees.

    Sure you can bundle up the policy but what about when it has to be unwound? Death or divorce. As LSM mentions there are other carriers who do allow one policy.

  189. Observer 09/06/2010 at 12:44 pm

    Cynthia. Primerica is a company. Primerica Life Insurance is a product. There is a difference.

  190. chArby 09/10/2010 at 4:15 pm

    It's interesting that such a large majority of the pro-Primerica comments here are rife with misspellings and poorly constructed sentences. I wouldn't trust insurance and investment advice from someone who can barely put two words together.

  191. Observer 09/10/2010 at 8:46 pm

    Grammar is usually indicative of logical comprehension. I agree whole heartedly with Charby, and had arrived at the same conclusion. Regardless of any ESL based arguments, 'your' and 'you're' simply have different meanings.

  192. Alex 09/14/2010 at 2:40 pm

    The renewal rates of the term insurance that Primerica offers does not increase anywhere near the outrageous rates of any other company. The Primerica plan for any client is to only have the insurance while you need it, until you become self insured with your cash. If you become terminally ill, Primerica will cut you a check for 40 percent of your face amount to help pay for medical costs. As far as permanent insurance goes, what they are not telling you is if you die before age 100(which most people do)they only write your family a check for the face amount and the insurance company keeps the cash value amount. That doesnt sound so great to me.

  193. LSM Insurance 09/14/2010 at 3:44 pm

    Thanks for the note - but I've seen no evidence Primerica renewal rates are any lower than other carriers. Several companies offer a terminal illness feature.

    You description of Permanent insurance is inaccurate. Universal Life policies with an increasing face amount (pay the face amount and accumulation fund tax free) Whole Life policies pay the face amount plus dividends tax free - the guaranteed cash value is only available as a policy loan.

  194. Observer 09/14/2010 at 4:14 pm

    Alex the cash value is part of the policy which does not belong to the policy holder. Why does Primerica even offer renewal rates because as you state the client should be financially independent?

    As for the terminal illness rider at what point will it pay out? from what I was told it has to be 6 months or less to live. Many other carriers use 12 months and a higher percentage.

    LOL...How many people are going to take a TI to pay medical cost if they know for sure they are terminal? Me I would make family preparations or live it up. Hey I'm just being real.

  195. Alex 09/14/2010 at 6:18 pm

    Every single policy I have seen, Primerica renewal rates are much much less expensive. And at the renewal rates you are still at the same class that you qualified at the policy start. Also, why pay into the cash value if you dont own it? There are no taxes on the cash value because there are no capital gains, so of course you arent paying taxes on them.

  196. LSM Insurance 09/14/2010 at 6:55 pm

    Alex - I just pulled an example off of Compulife (comparison pricing software)
    Male 50 Standard Non Smoker Rates $500,000 Term 20

    Manulife $1,748.88 a year; renewal rate in year 20 $18,694.32

    Primerica $1,920.00 a year; renewal rate in year 20 $11540.00 but it becomes an annual renewable term by year 35 the annual premium is $46,925.00

  197. Alex 09/14/2010 at 8:16 pm

    what are the renewal rates for the others at year 35?

  198. LSM Insurance 09/15/2010 at 8:24 am

    The Manulife renewal would be level for 20 years i.e from year 21 to to the next renewal or expiry. The Primerica Term 20 while it has a lower initial renewal premium turns into an annual renewable term which results in the insured having a much higher premium outlay.

  199. Alex 09/15/2010 at 1:13 pm

    Are you saying that the Manulife renewal locks in for 20 years? Ive never seen that. Ive always seen it that they are annual renewable as well. Am I not understanding something right?

  200. LSM Insurance 09/15/2010 at 1:22 pm

    Alex - that is correct Manulife Term plan have level rates for the first 20 years and level rates for the next 20 years after the renewal. In fact virtually all the major life insurance companies in Canada offering Term 20 coverage have the same renewal feature including RBC Insurance, Equitable Life, BMO Insurance, Transamerica, Empire Life etc.

    Regards,

  201. Alex 09/15/2010 at 1:26 pm

    Is that unique to canada? I have not seen that in the States.

  202. LSM Insurance 09/15/2010 at 1:37 pm

    We can't speak to that we are only licensed in Canada. By the way the example given a few posts above is for Canada. Regards,

  203. Observer 09/15/2010 at 7:06 pm

    Alex as for the US market if someone is looking at a renewal rate that large it would be best to re-shop the coverage or if there's a serious health issue involved to look at converting to a permanent product.

    Then of course there are Guaranteed UL products on the market that agents can dial in a guarantee period up to age 100 or even 121.

  204. Jesse 09/23/2010 at 10:00 pm

    I have an Uncle who works with Primerica ...part-time of course. My Uncle is a real shady character, this has really turned against Primerica.
    I have seen how he comes up with potential clients, I have seen how his coworkers come up with their contacts also...not very professional.

  205. LSM Insurance 09/24/2010 at 11:49 am

    Thanks for the note Jesse. But you can't judge a company based on one agents character or prospecting activities.

  206. ilscorp 09/24/2010 at 6:48 pm

    Agreed, I think alot of people rush to judge before giving the benefit of the doubt.

  207. Sharmaine 10/03/2010 at 12:41 pm

    I am just a simple citizen needing the most affordable life insurance with a reputablt death claims history, in a span of 15 years being in this country I have purchased 6 policies, the 6th one which is Primerica is the best one I have purchased. I heard their agent get little commission but it is because they to give more to their clients like me. If I had known them before I wouldn't have had to go through so much policies. Just an FYI.

  208. LSM Insurance 10/03/2010 at 2:53 pm

    Thanks for sharing - it is possible that Primerica pays out a lower commission rate to its agents but that is more likely due to the numerous layers of its distribution channel.

  209. Michelle 11/01/2010 at 4:11 pm

    Never purchase a policy without comparing online quotes. I found that out the hard way. Thank you for this information. A lot of my questions have been answered.

  210. LSM Insurance 11/01/2010 at 4:32 pm

    Thanks for the note and the kind words.

  211. Miguel Burmudez 11/10/2010 at 6:25 pm

    I got introduced to Primerica by my ex boss. Since I was a college student with no money I was kinda interested. Went to the interview and took the job thinking that I would be getting paid an hourly+commission. But the RVP told me that I would only get commission. I then wanted out and asked how but the RVP kept beating around the bush saying that I need to "help people" and to "build a team" so that I can be promoted. I an 19 years old. Who's gon trust me to invest their money and sell them life insurance. Most people think they will live forever and are already happy with an insurance company. Also when I went to quit one of the RVP said that I was being "P.O.O.R." which meant Passing Over Opportunities Repeatedly. I shrugged it off and ignored him and haven't heard from or seen them since.
    I recommend to anybody to run away as fast as you can if Primerica approaches you. They are a scam. And like one guy up there said..."how can you prove that Primerica paid people when 9/11 or war casualty victims died in battle."

  212. LSM Insurance 11/10/2010 at 7:30 pm

    Hi Miguel,

    Thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear about your bad experience - in fairness most captive agents and independent brokers work on commission.

    I think the key ingredient to success in this industry having an effective prospecting system and deliver value to clients and prospective clients.

  213. Fabien 11/12/2010 at 8:01 pm

    I must say that I'm impressed with your site, the information you provide, and its accuracy to top it off. I'm a branch manager and senior investment advisor for a small independent IDA investment firm and have been in the industry for almost 18 years now having been at and managed HSBC and Wood Gundy in the past. I mention this because I actually started out in Primerica, back in the days of A.L. Williams and the changeover to Primerica. I absolutely agree with everything you've said about Primerica and commend you on your tact and patience with some of the comments above. I should point out that I never received any substantial training from anyone at Primerica during my 2+ years there. But the problem was that I only figured out my knowledge deficiencies after I completed my CFP and CSC courses and others. It was only then that I realized that I could have been dangerous to some clients' financial health because of the limited information I had regarding the vast and complex area of insurance and estate planning, an area I now specialize in. In my opinion, the people I knew at Primerica were generally not the problem, their structure and approach was. They genuinely cared and tried their best, but they were mostly kept in the dark when it came to the realities of the “outside financial world”. I cannot speak to the current state of the company of course, but I can only surmise that it hasn’t dramatically changed since my days. That said, I do recognize and appreciate that they were the path I took into financial services, which resulted in my successful 18-year business, so I owe them that I guess. Keep up the great work.

  214. LSM Insurance 11/13/2010 at 12:55 pm

    Thanks for sharing.

  215. PrimeCanadian 11/20/2010 at 1:14 am

    Miguel says

    "I recommend to anybody to run away as fast as you can if Primerica approaches you. They are a scam. And like one guy up there said…”how can you prove that Primerica paid people when 9/11 or war casualty victims died in battle.”

    Miguel is simply wrong.

    They are NOT a scam. They [we] help people to get out of debt, and build funds for retirement.

    How you can know that Primerica pays out is its rating with A. M. Best. A+ last time I looked.

    Thanks for being very balanced. It shows you are a professional.

    I think the markets are somewhat different. So any comparison between independent brokers or other insurance agents and Primerica are not fair.

    Which is better, apples or oranges?

    Primerica helps the middle to lower class primarily, a group most others ignore because there is not as much money to be earned.

    If you read advisors mags and websites you see they keep talking about he HNW client and how to get and keep them. You won't find that anywhere in Primerica.... different market.

    Nothing wrong with going after the HNW client but that does not help the LNW client.

    Primericans have been taught that most clients would do better with term insurance.

    It is what most people need.

    Most third party financial gurus recommend term insurance for most people.

    They are TRULY unbiassed because they have no members selling insurance.

    However at least some of the groups that someone mentioned above are composed of people who sell UL and WL, cash value insurance. They have been taught that they are appropriate for most clients. So they cannot be unbiased.

    I have trouble understanding how cash value insurance helps individuals who cannot afford as much as they need especially when they are young but they are being sold it in vast quantities.

    I also have trouble understanding how "savings" within insurance helps the client.

    It actually helps the insurance company as it helps pay the face value of the policy if they insured dies.

    How does it help a client when they do not own it? The insurance company does. You don't have to pay interest to borrow your own money.

    My understanding is, correct me if I am wrong, that the ONLY way a client gets the money is to cancel the policy.

    Am I right?

    And if they policy is canceled because the client wants or needs the "savings" why is it called "permanent insurance".

    Primerica does have lacks. Anything designed by humans does.

    What it does not lack is the ability to help clients to eliminate their debts, and start saving for retirement as well as providing affordable term insurance as the financial gurus recommend.

    Yes Primerica takes a different approach than most companies which is why it has grown so much.

    I have some areas of concern personally but if I sold cash value insurance I would have more concerns because clients would not be able to afford the protection needed.

    I cannot say that whole life is always bad, there may be times when it is good for some clients but it seems that they would be in the minority.

    From my perspective, we run into SO MANY people that do not have enough insurance but were sold cash value insurance, that it is no wonder that Primerica agents ALWAYS consider it bad. That is what they see.

    I am sure there are advantages to being an independent broker. However just being able to offer MORE choices is not necesarily good.

    A supermarket offers more choices of food but they cannot offer the old-fashioned personal attention to a customer that your friendly neighborhood butcher can.

    Even the LLQP Guide we all have to study and pass says regarding Whole Life that it is best for people who:

    -have better incomes
    -would have survivors with financial needs [term insurance can do exactly the same]
    -have estate planning goals [leaving inheritances] I guess I have trouble seeing how that would be better with whole life than term. It seems to me that term insurance would leave the beneficiaries with MORE money as survivors
    -can appreciate the value of policy loans.

    Again who needs loans when you have enough savings?

    -need the discipline of an insurance contract to save

    Discipline can also be encouraged by DSC mutual funds can it not?

    So if that is all the LLQP can come up with, what is so great about it?

    It seems that the only item in that list where term insurance WOULD NOT be more useful might be "have better incomes" and that is NOT up to the agent.

    Of course an agent can encourage a client a client to buy term and INVEST the difference and that may increase their net worth and some day their income.

    So really what specific example can you give where Whole Life is superior to term?

    I am open.

  216. LSM Insurance 11/20/2010 at 9:39 am

    Thanks for the note two big advantage of an independent broker versus a captive agaent is 1) they do not have quotas to meet from a paticular company 2) they can shop for the best value on a insurance policy be it a Term or Permanent policy.

    Their is no such product category as Cash Value insurance. Permanent insurance plans are available with or without a cash. They provide coverage for life. They work best for individuals:

    1) Who have a long term insurance - many seniors now have mortgages into their 60's and 70's - many Term solutions become unaffordable by this age
    2) People with a special needs child and need to provide funds for that child even after they become an adult
    3) Who want tax free funds to offset taxes on their RRSP, RRIF or Investment property
    4) Who want enhance the value of their estate
    5) People who have a hard time saving and want to make sure they are not a burden to their family.

    There are more reasons but these are a few.

  217. Phil 11/24/2010 at 1:22 pm

    When buying life insurance, most people have the choice between 3 types of products:

    Term: Will cover them for a low cost for the duration of the term.

    Whole Life: A permanent DECREASING FACE AMOUNT policy that is presented to you as a "forced saving". What most people forget is that when you die, you don't get the face amount + the savings component. You get the (face amount - the saving) + the savings. As you get older, the insurance company is less and less on the hook as they offset their risk with your savings yet keep the premium the same. Plus the growth is minimal.

    Universal Life: Great product if it actually worked. For a UL to be viable, it needs to average a growth rate of 8% after all the fees have been calculated. However, if the growth rate becomes too high (improbable) the excess investment must be removed from the policy to keep it as an insurance policy. If not, it becomes an investment is is fully taxable. The problem with these policies is that not many of them are able to generate the necessary growth to stay viable. Because the premiums in most UL goes up every year, the policy quickly goes into a loan and collapses when the individual needs it the most.

    Now, about your "five so called reasons not to shop Primerica:

    1- One size solution Term: Yes, that is Primerica's philosophy. The logic: Buy term - invest the difference is a high yield segragated fund so that you get to a point where you don't need the insurance (ie: you become self-insured). All three examples that you provided above are actually either equally well covered by term insurance or better covered by garanteed renewable term insurance.

    2- Primerica's policies are too expensive. For single individuals yes (but that's not Primerica's market). If you look at the cost to cover an entire family they are generally cheaper because they only issue one policy. Plus they also have a built-in terminal illness rider. Interesting that commission structure is brought in the picture. I guess people should not buy whole life or universal life because the commission structure for those is generally anywhere from one to two years of premium.

    3- Primerica's policies are non-convertible. No, they are not. Again, why would they be? The general idea is that invidiuals will be self-insure by that point! If not, you can always renew the term which will still be cheaper than keeping a UL policy afloat.

    4- The part-time versus full-time debate (ie: Primerica reps are uneducated and don't know what they are doing). I guess the solution for that one would be for PFS reps to become licensed by a third party insurance body controlled by a whole bunch of full-timers right? Oh wait, that's already in place every where in Canada. You wouldn't be insinuating that the various provincial insurance councils are not doing their job would you?

    5- Captive sales force: so does Sun Life, London Life, Desjardin, RBC, TD, Great-West Life and all the other major companies out there. Interesting that their no blur on their descriptive page not to purchase from them too.

    Wait a sec, this wouldn't be a scare tactic to protect the industry, would it?

  218. LSM Insurance 11/24/2010 at 1:46 pm

    Thanks for the note. But unfortunately your assesment is inaccurate on many points and has been covered in numerous posts. So we'll just mention the following.

    1. Canada Life's recent dividend rate was 7.36% link to lsminsurance.ca

    2. On Universal Policies - almost all companies in Canada offer a Universal Life plan with a level Term 100 Cost of Insurance

    3, RBC, Sun Life, Great West Life all have a captive and an independent broker network

    The main point being - it just makes sense to work with a reputable full time broker who offers a full basket of insurance solutions.

  219. Phil 11/24/2010 at 11:17 pm

    Another quote, this time from your site about Universal Life:

    START OF QUOTE

    Now this policy is not without risks, many universal life policies have an escalating insurance costs in order to maximize the policies cash value build up in the early years. If the policy does not grow at your anticipated rate of return you could be left with an empty crate and no insurance. This type of policy is often geared towards high income earners who are looking to defer tax and already have their financial house in order.

    Source: link to lsminsurance.ca

    END OF QUOTE

    So with this in mind, why would a CFP recommend a Universal Life policy to an individual knowing that their is a chance that you could be left with an empty crate and no insurance?

    Again, would it not make more sense to simply get a Term policy and invest the difference? That way you are garanteed the policy over the term even if your investment portfolio fails?

    Of course, one could invest in a segragated fund and be garanteed either 75% or 100% (depending on the company) of the amount invested at the maturity date. Wouldn`t that be better then a Universal life policy?

    At least you'd be garanteed both the coverage and the investment would you not?

  220. LSM Insurance 11/25/2010 at 12:09 am

    Thanks for the note. There is no blanket solution for life insurance planning.

    Each person has individual needs and goals.

    Regards,

  221. Phil 11/25/2010 at 9:54 am

    Again, LSM Insurance refuses to actually tackle the issue and provide the community a list of specific and tangible examples of who would be better served by a permanent life insurance.

    I still find it surprising that while Primerica is not the only company to employ a captive sales force, it is the only one that your website is advising not to purchase from.

    Perhaps you should also post a notice not to purchase from anybody that promotes purchasing any kind of permanent life insurance policies because:
    A- they always offer a high commission to the agent
    B- for the vast majority of individuals, they are not the most appropriate product for their needs yet it is the most often sold type of insurance in Canada
    C- should you need to use the money saved within your permanent life insurance, you will be charged interest on you borrowing your money and your coverage will be reduced from that amount and your policy could collapse on you when you need it the most
    D- most independent financial advisors and literature recommend that you DO NOT purchase permanent life insurance but instead recommends that you buy term and invest the difference until you become self-insured

  222. LSM Insurance 11/25/2010 at 10:08 am

    We do several critical reviews throughout our site.
    This blog is littered with exapmples on why Permanent insurance can be a good fit - of couse it depends on the circumstances. Some examples
    1) People with a disabled child
    2) Offset taxes on a RRSP/RRIF or investment property
    3) Charitable Giving
    4) Estate Creation and Estate Maximization

    Because a Permanent policy is only bought once the actual commission paid is much less than a Term policy which will often need to be replaced multiple times. The average consumer buys life insurance 6 times in his or her lifetime.

    Success in this industry is a long term process and worrying about the commission from a given case is a recipe for diaster.

  223. RJ 11/26/2010 at 12:27 am

    I have a feeling that Primerica's philosophy that term insurance is the only solution, has something to do with the fact that roughly 2% of all term policies actually pay out a death benefit - collecting premiums on 98% of term policies that won't pay out a death benefit can be very profitable. I think this fact has more to do with the company philosophy than term insurance being the correct solution for everyone.

    I also think that Primerica's philosophy that term insurance is the only solution for middle income earners, may have something to do with what that target market can afford to buy as opposed to judging each situation separately.

  224. Phil 11/26/2010 at 10:24 am

    Quote:
    This blog is littered with exapmples on why Permanent insurance can be a good fit - of couse it depends on the circumstances. Some examples
    1) People with a disabled child
    2) Offset taxes on a RRSP/RRIF or investment property
    3) Charitable Giving
    4) Estate Creation and Estate Maximization
    End Quote

    Obviously one needs to crunch some numbers again. All but one (charitable giving) is better served by term insurance.

    Bequests would also be better served by term but most charitable institutions prefer a permanent policy.

    Reason: Individuals pay less premium for a higher face amount. This means that they can actually get the coverage that they need for cheaper.

    As far as commission goes, I have to disagree with you. Since most people's Universal Life policy collapses on them after a few years, the client is forced to purchase a new policy with less coverage or higher premiums without any collateral savings to offset the difference in face amount.

    Whereas if you purchase term, you can invest the difference into a high yield mutual fund or segregated fund. That way you get bring yourself to a point where you don't need insurance anymore.

    I guess it all depends on how you view insurance. Primerica views insurance for most individual as a temporary need until individuals have built enough collateral to negate the need for insurance.

    That's not the way the rest of the industry looks at insurance.

  225. Phil 11/26/2010 at 11:32 am

    RJ

    One could run the argument the other way too.

    Let’s say I (36, standard) was to purchase a whole life policy for $100,000. The cheapest one from this site is $74.65 per month. How profitable is that for an insurance company?
    After 20 years at a very conservative growth rate of 12%, the insurer would have generated over $74,580. If I was to die at the age of 75 (39 year from now), the insurer would have almost $721,000 in their coffers. Could they spare the $100,000 minus my accumulated savings that reside in my policy at my death? Probably yes.

    What would it be for Primerica? My term-35 policy would be $38.39 per month. I take that amount and invest it into a segregated fund (at my age, Common Sense Asset Builder V) which has a return rate of 7.61% so far for life (16 years). At 71, I have $76,109. Since I only needed $100,000 coverage, now I only need $25,000 to offset the gap. Let’s say I was to die at the age of 65, my relatives would have received $100,000 + the $46,172 that’s in the segregated fund

    If I was to live pass 71, I would get a Term-10 policy for 25K. That would cost me (on posted rates at age 70) $73.39 per month. Not that big of an expense knowing that I’ll be self insured at 75 and can cancel my policy at that point.

    Just for those who are curious, Primerica’s cut at $38.39 in premiums invested at 12% for 35 years would be $249,354. At my death (4 years later), it’s $404,388. Unlike the whole life, they only had to pay 25K in premium (if I would have died prior to cancelling my policy). So a term approach means a profit of roughly $380,000 while a whole life would generate a profit of $621,000.

    I guess the real question is which is better for the customer? To pay the same amount over the same period of time and to get 100K of coverage (combined face amount and savings; whole life) or 100K (or 25K) of coverage + their investment (Term)? Obviously, the earlier you get started with Primerica’s program, the more profitable it is for the customer no?

    Either way we look at it, this is a highly profitable industry for all insurers.

  226. LSM Insurance 11/26/2010 at 12:14 pm

    In response to th the above two posts. A conservative 12% rate of return. Prime is now 3% link to bankofcanada.ca - who needs to work someone could just live off the spread between 12% and prime.

    As for most Universal Life plans lapsing - Manulife the largest supplier of level cost Universal Life plans in Canada are raising their rates 5% to 30% because it is a lapse supported product and hardly anyone is lapsing the policies. Manulife is also no longer offering particpating Whole Life policies for similar reasons.

    Standard Life also raised its Universal Life Term 100 rates and Canada Life pulled it's Term 100 plan because of profitability issues.

    Regards,

  227. Phil 11/26/2010 at 10:04 pm

    No, most people don't get 12% on their policy, the insurer gets well above 12% on their investment return over the life of the policy. Don't believe me, look at the ROE of insurers and banks over the last 100 years.

    Of course most insurers either increased the rates or just removed T-100 from the line up for not being profitable enough. Good for the client but not the bottom line. Why would they keep it when they have Universal Life annual renewable term and variable life in the line up.

    Both of those are highly profitable to both the agent and the company... they just are not the most appropriate type of insurance for the low and middle income bracket... yet agents keep selling it to those individuals do they not?

    Don't get me wrong, ART would be an awesome product if three conditions could be met:

    1- the returns would be high enough. What most people don't realize is that ART must generate a revenue growth of roughly 10% year after year (after all expenses) to be viable in the long run.

    2- clients would not be charged interests for any loan against the policy because of the premium increase.

    3- clients are always garanteed the face amount plus what is in the account value (investment) as opposed to face amount minus the loans against the account.

    Get those three points garanted into a Universal Life Annual (yearly) Renewable Term the contract, then you have a rock solid product that I would be happy to support.

  228. Phil 11/26/2010 at 10:10 pm

    As for the spread issue, that's exactly what most indepenant Certified Financial Planners recommend to they not?

    Invest your money and let it grow to the point were the interests you generate are high enough to sustain your lifestyle... then you can retire without fear.

    Of course you could plan to deplete the capital but when you think about it, that's not a good approach because you don't know when you'll pass away. If you pass away too young, then what? You go back to work at the age of 83?

    That's why getting the right amount of insurance is essential. For the low/middle income family, there's no way they'd be able to afford $500,000 to $1,000,000 on each the husband and the wife if they are going with permanent insurance. So what's better, to settle for 250K of whole life because that's all they can afford or to actually get the proper amount and properly protect the familly?

  229. LSM Insurance 11/27/2010 at 11:22 am

    Thanks for the many posts but you are going over the same thing multiple times but you are missing the point.

    Agreed getting the right amount of insurance is th most important thing

    We believe it is not responsible to project a 12% rate of return. Furthermore you can't compare an Equity based fund with a Non Particpating or Particpating Whole Life policy even when projecting the Internal Rate of Return of the Death Benefit because the non participating policy is guaranteed and risk free and the particpating policy has some risk - the dividend rate can flucuate but usually not very much and it can't be negative.

    As for not mentioning the pitfalls of other companies the site offers a pros and cons analysis of each insurance company and we consistently complete critical analysis' of all life and living benefit products.

  230. CHRISSIE 11/27/2010 at 10:15 pm

    So would you not feel ok with selling your home with a part time real estate agent ?
    Dont sell your home then because all( mostly) agents are part time .

    The company helps consumers get out of debt ...losing my house and bills out the wazoo from losing my job , and they helped me - they did not recruit me ...and the insurance was no higher than the previous 3 quotes i received . Be careful who you bark at .... ALL companies have part time employees , rip offs and scams .... but the gentleman who came to see me was professional , non pushy and very knowledgable

  231. Phil 11/28/2010 at 9:41 am

    First, thank you for agreeing to debate, not many agents are opened to that and I applaud you for it.

    I apologize. It appears that I wasn't clear in my communication. I fully agree with you that projecting a 12% rate of return for an individual is irresponsible. That's why when I plan for their retirements I only use 7% (averaged over the life of their investment).

    The conservative 12% rate I was referring to above was what the insurers (Sun Life, Primerica, Great West, etc) and the banks get on your money when they invest it for you. If you want to really know how much they make over a given period, just take the average of their Return on Equity rates.

    The reference is dated but following the 9/11 attacks and the global market crash that followed, the financial industry (ie: the companies) were able to generate profits of 15.2% that year. ( link to fin.gc.ca )

    Individuals (the people) got anywhere between -5% to 5% of return on their investments that year.

    As you pointed out, whole life policy holders can get dividend, I agree. However, we both know that it's not the full amount of the difference between the cost of the insurance (the cost of a term insurance) and the premium charged, that's invested in the client's account.

    Do I repeat myself? I do, but at least I don’t contradict myself like others on this board.

  232. Phil 11/28/2010 at 9:53 am

    Just to clarify Primerica's life insurance policies here are the major terms from my contract:

    1- Term life insurance to age 95, Exchangeable after five years to annual increasing premium or decreasing term to age 100.

    2- Comes with family banding - what this means is that Primerica will only issue on policy for the entire family. Instead of paying policy fees on each policy (between $75 - $125 per year), I only pay one fee of $85 per year for me, my wife and my two children.

    3- I have built-in Increasing Benefit Rider where for the first 10 years of my policy I can increase the face amount by 10% per year without proof of insurability. What does that mean? I have a $500,000 policy. If I decided to take advantage of that rider, I could be insured for $1.1M without providing proof of insurability after 10 years (of course the premium is adjusted accordingly).

    4- I have a built in Terminal Illness Rider that will pay me while I'm still alive 40% of my face amount up to $250,000 should I be diagnosed with a terminal illness.

    5- I have a children banding rider where all my children are covered at $25,000 for one cost ($15.44 per month - same price whether I have 2 or 10 children). Once the they reach the age of 25, they are guaranteed 5 times the coverage without proof of insurability at standard rate... in other words, they can get a $125,000 Term policy renewable to age 95 without proof of insurability.

    Are Primerica products really that bad? Can you point out another insurer that offers similar products specifically geared to the middle class family?

  233. LSM Insurance 11/28/2010 at 12:09 pm

    Thanks,

    The rate of return the insurance companies earn is not really relevant to how the insurance policy works for the consumer.

    Not to mention the 15.2% is way down since the market correction and is relatively flat over the last 10 years.

  234. LSM Insurance 11/28/2010 at 12:11 pm

    Referring to the part agent comment. I'm sure there are good and bad Primerica agents. Just like their are good and bad brokers. All things being equal I would rather work with a full time real estate agent or insurance professional.

  235. LSM Insurance 11/28/2010 at 12:19 pm

    Regarding the post on Primerica's term merits.

    -Most companies offer policy banding and multi-life discounts
    -The increasing Term benefit feature is interesting not many companies offer this. Of course as you mention the insureds premiums increases
    -Terminal illness feature (not to be confused with critical illness) most companies offer this. Not much risk to insurer since the insured most be diagnosed by the doctor to be dying in the next 12 to 24 months its simply an advance on the policy death benefit
    -renewable to age 95. Empire Life's Term 10 and 20 policies are renewable to 100. BMO and Transamerica Term 30 are also renewable to 100. But in all cases the premiums are prohibitive in the later policy years.
    -Children's Term rider almost all companies offer this. Manulife allows the insured to convert up 10 times the face amount to either a Term or Permanent plan. Regards,

  236. Observer 12/01/2010 at 4:20 pm

    Phil considering the poly features you mentioned ask your agent if you are not one how is the policy unbundled at the death of the primary? Which also brings in another question. Considering the primary is the owner of the policy what are the potentials in case of divorce? Can the owner just change the beneficiary from the spouse to the new girl friend?

    As for the child conversions what if the child gets a health condition which makes insurability an issue. Well wouldn't be a better consideration to lock in a price and face amount considering many health issues do include paying out extra money?

    As for the increasing benefit rider why not just get the coverage you need today? Especially if the coverage is shopped with another carrier who may be able to offer the needed coverage at a decent price? Hey I'm just sayin.

    As for the Terminal Illness Rider is it 6, 8 or 12 month's?

  237. Phil 12/03/2010 at 2:41 pm

    I called Primerica Customer Service and here is their response. The assessment is mine and not Primerica's.

    1- Should the primary pass away, the spouse has the option to get a new policy without proof of insurability. The only downfall is that the price will now be based on their age. But again, it will be cheaper than a permanent policy in the end because they might not need as much or any insurance anymore.

    2- Yes, in case of divorce, one spouse can be removed and another added. The new spouse will have to provide proof of insurability and premiums will be adjusted accordingly. The removed spouse has the option of getting their own insurance as above. As for the beneficiary, it all depends if the policy was issued to an irrevocable beneficiary or not. If it was, the insurer will need the approval of the irrevocable beneficiary prior to making any changes.

    3- As for why not to get a full coverage on a child and lock the price in. I'm just curious exactly how this can be done when the agent and the parents do not know what amount of coverage will be needed in the future? In my case, replacing my children is priceless, what I do care about is paying for an insurance that will pay for their burial and allow me to take a few weeks/months off work. I'm sorry but I kind of have to agree with "The Wealthy Barber" that children are financial liabilities when they are alive (ie: they don't contribute financially). Why over insure them?

    As for the increasing benefit rider, I guess the idea is that as you get older, you get paid more and have more debt. Therefore you need more insurance. Why pay for more now when you can delay the cost to another year?

    The terminal illness rider is a 6 month rider. Of course the amount is deducted from the face amount. Frankly, I'm OK with that because if I'm terminally ill, I most likely cannot work and it helps keep my family afloat and gives us some leeway in doing things together (awesome last memories).

  238. Observer 12/03/2010 at 10:25 pm

    For the spouse especially if it's a female there's a very good chance she could get more favorable rates with a separate policy of her own and also get a waiver of premium rider. So if her husband kicks the bucket the policy is still in force with the same premium and she has her own TIB rider.

    The divorce part was basically considering the primary if it was the husband could change the beneficiary to the girl friend away from the former wife if he so choose. If the wife was the owner of the policy he couldn't do it. With the divorce rates what they are today that's something clients should consider as is the process and ramifications if the policy has to be unbundled.

    The child rider can have a guaranteed increase option and a conversion provision to a permanent program at a certain age. If the kid does develope a health issue or whatever those options are there. Term is term and at some point the premiums will increase.

    From my past understanding the Increasing Benefit Rider was there so the policy would keep up with inflation. Now as for the terminal illness rider many other carriers will go up to 12 months and some beyond with much more generous access to larger amounts of the face amount.

    Consider this. Someone is told they have 8,9 or 12
    months to live will PFS apply the benefit? Unless I'm mistaken the PFS TIB says the insured much be told they have 6 months or less to live. (Keeping it simple) in order to have access to the TIB. In that case which is better 6 months or less or 12 months or less?

    I'm sure if you looked at other carriers you would see different features and amounts. As you mention the issue with children you are correct but another consideration is future insurability.
    We are talking more about guarantees rather then as an investment program.

    Just some things to make you go hmmmm

  239. Observer 12/06/2010 at 5:41 pm

    Just one more observation. "Frankly, I’m OK with that because if I’m terminally ill, I most likely cannot work and it helps keep my family afloat and gives us some leeway in doing things together (awesome last memories)."

    ***TIB should not be considered a replacement for disability coverage.

  240. Phil 12/08/2010 at 1:00 pm

    I'm sorry, but I don't see your point about term being more expensive in the long run. It is if you never build capital to negate the need for insurance. With permanent insurance you waste your money and don't built your capital... in other words, you make yourself hostage of your policy.

    Yes, 12 months for a terminal illness rider is better than 6... but if 6 comes built into my policy, I'll take it (especially when the overall cost to insure my family is cheaper).

    As for not using it for disability coverage, I agree. see I planned it properly and uped my death benefit to ensure that I woould not be depleting the neeeded capital. Sorry, that was cheaper then purchasing a disability insurance...

    Finaly, I don't get your argument about the cost being more expensive if one spouse dies and it unbundles the policy. If a spouse dies, a lump sum payment will be paid and that should be enough (if the individual is properly insured) to cover all family debt and to off-set the missing salary. Logically, the surviving spouse should need less insurance and that will be cheaper in the long run.

    Finally, since term is alot cheaper than permanent insurance, you can get more coverage for the same price or get the same coverage and invest the difference outside of the policy. Either way, you, the client wins as you either leave more money for your dependents or you have more savings left for your dependents.

  241. LSM Insurance 12/08/2010 at 1:13 pm

    We've discussed the benefits of Permanent insurance in numerous posts. So we'll leave that for Observer or someone else to respond.

    Regarding built in Terminal Illness benenfits, Empire Life is the most generous time period at 24 months - it may be very challenging to get a doctor to sign off that insured has less than 6 months to live. We did a comparison of 5 companies here link to lsminsurance.ca

  242. Observer 12/08/2010 at 7:30 pm

    As a former PFS agent I fully understand the BTID concept. The issue is term verse term. If Phil want's to pay more and not even consider features that may be more of a benefit for him and his family that's up to him. I myself once drank the kool-aid.

    Here is something to consider. When PFS compares term to perm. they are looking at price and face anount. For some people price is important. Now for those where prices isn't a main factor permanent may be another consideration. I have seen business owners who have been turned down by banks for short term loans. Where did they get the loan? From their stable whole life policy. Then there's also the potential of (US) asset protection.

    So now that you know if anything (God Forbid) happened to you your wife would have to get a new PFS policy and pay attained age premiums and that's not a consideration not to also mention she is being quoted a unisex rate? Where as also her spouse rider doesn't offer her the Terminal Illness Benefit? If you feel that program is in the best interest of your family hey more power to you.

    As I said before I used to be there so I understand. Company before family. Once I researched alternatives I couldn't and wouldn't do it.

  243. Phil 12/08/2010 at 8:13 pm

    Interesting that a business owner would consider taking a loan in their "stable" policy savings. Wouldn't doing so reduce the death benefit that was needed to ensure a safe transfer of titles to his inheritors should he pass before repaying the loan?

  244. Observer 12/08/2010 at 11:27 pm

    Yes it would but it was a short term loan. Think of it as a TIB that can be put back in the policy. The point is when the bank said no his policy said yes and the business could meet the short term demands. Next your also assuming that the loan amount was a substantial amount in regards to the face amount.

    What I'm really trying to say is just because PFS says something doesn't make it true 100% of the time. They want you to buy and sell their products which from a business stand point I can understand but never give any company or person your mind..

  245. Phil 12/09/2010 at 6:21 pm

    What if the individual accumulated more savings outside of his policy? Wouldn't that be better for him? That way he would not jeopardize the amount of the death benefit to be received.

  246. observer 12/10/2010 at 3:16 pm

    In times liquidity is a consideration. In many instances it's not an either or type of situation. Have you considered the person may have also had outside funds but just didn't want to go that route? Some people want guarantees and guarantees cost money. BTID is a great concept but there is a reason the Final Expense market is growing.

    I'm not saying a permanent product is for everyone but for some people it's the right tool for the job.

  247. Phil 12/10/2010 at 4:46 pm

    OK let's go with your scenario. The business owner has a $500,000 whole-life policy with $75,000 Cash Value. The policy was necessary for his son to off-set the capital gain tax on the sale of his company at his father's death.

    The individual takes a $55,000 loan from the whole-life policy cash reserves. He puts the $55,000 into his company and uses it to purchase equipment. Three weeks after the purchase, he dies.

    Now, the policy will pay only $445,000. To make matters worse, the equipment purchased boost the value of the company by another $85,000 because it greatly increases productivity. All of the sudden the capital gain tax jumps by another $15,000 for a total of $515,000.

    The son and family doesn't have the missing liquidity ($70,000) to off-set the probate/capital gain tax and the company must be sold. Because this is an estate sale, it becomes a fire sale and the company only sells for 20% of its book value.

    How exactly is this advantageous to the policy owner?

    I agree permanent products do have their place in the market place. They are designed for people who have a high net worth in LIQUIDITY... this means (2M$+ in their bank account). For pretty much everybody else, it's a rip-off.

  248. observer 12/10/2010 at 7:11 pm

    He offset the $70,000 with a PL policy. In message boards people can come up with any type of scenario. You say Perms are a rip off for most but I have come across people who their perm. plans replaced and at later ages had issues getting coverage. Term guarantee periods as you know expire and if due to life events the savings isn't there that BTID theory was just that a theory.

    Over the past 30 sum odd years how many agents have gone through PFS? How many clients has PFS had? Where are all the financially independent people? Where are the masses?

    All the rah, rah and hype sounds good but at some point we all must look at reality. It's business wrapped around a "crusade". Term is great but the person MUST have a savings program in place. If not in the later years that perm. product may not seem so bad. I've see it and have to deal with it.
    That's why the final expense and funeral trust market is growing. Consider the 30 plus year track record of PFS and BTID. How have the clients made out long term?

    I have found out the teaching from my days at PFS were not as black and White as they imprinted in me. No matter the scenario when the funds were needed the policy was there when the bank was making things difficult or having to jump through hoops. Sometimes people have to make a business decision.

  249. Phil 12/11/2010 at 11:24 am

    and you're right, there is a reason why the final expense market is growing: because people invest and save in the wrong products during their life time. They want garantees, the only ones they really got was that they would be hostage to the system and broke in their old age!

  250. Phil 12/11/2010 at 7:03 pm

    Did I read that right?

    From the example above, the business owner takes a loan against his initial policy then he must get another policy to protect against the loan.

    That's exactly why he would have been better served by a term policy coupled with a savings program outside of the policy in the first place.

    Under a term program, his money would have grown faster and he could have gotten his money without jeopardizing his coverage or having to purchase another policy.

  251. Phil 12/11/2010 at 7:17 pm

    Again from an above post, BTID is a theory and people who purchase term cannot get insured in the future.

    Well, I'm sorry, what would happen if your Universal Life policy collapses on you, which by the way happens more often then not? Wouldn't one be better served with BTID?

    At the end of the term, you still have your savings. If your UL collapses on you, you've lost both the insurance and your savings.

    As for not being able to get insurance in the future, isn't that what garanteed insurability is for? Primerica, garantees my insurability to 95 or to 100 if I decrease my face amount.

    I'm sorry but most insurance companies will only issue term to age 65 or 70. Yes, there is T-100 but that's more expensive than a regular term policy and frankly, as you get older, you shouldn't need a high amount of coverage if you had been saving on the side. So why pay for that?

    Plus many insurers don't offer T-100 anymore (or greatly increased their price over the last few years) because they are not as profitable as whole-life or universal life.

  252. Observer 12/12/2010 at 4:45 pm

    Phil the part about getting another policy was basically a joke. As for the UL blowing up today there are guaranteed UL policies in the market at least in the US and I don't know about Canada.

    Sure PFS will guarantee up to age 95 but at what future rate? Now if by chances someone does develop a health issue or get a new mortgage or get married at a later age (Life event)it would be nice to have the consideration of locking in a face amount and premium.

    Basically your quote hits the nail on the head. You said "there is a reason why the final expense market is growing: because people invest and save in the wrong products during their life time."

    That is the reason in a nut shell why I and others left PFS. People do save and invest in the wrong products. We found other companies offered more competitive products that could be of more advantage to the clients. If you look around PFS it's company first.

  253. Phil 12/12/2010 at 6:48 pm

    Observer, could you clarify this part of your post for me?

    "Term is great but the person MUST have a savings program in place. If not in the later years that perm. product may not seem so bad. I’ve see it and have to deal with it."

    The way I read it is that you recommend that people should not save money because they will have a permanent insurance to keep them insured and help them retire. Is that correct?

  254. Phil 12/12/2010 at 11:35 pm

    Observer, your argument doesn't hold.

    1- Someone developing a health issue in the future: again, guaranteed insurability covers that. Plus as your savings grow, you need less insurance which in term reduces the cost of the policy when it’s time to renew.

    2- Mortgages at a later age: debt should always be offset by a term policy... even the LLQP manual agrees on that in Canada.

    3- Remarried: why would you remarrying equal you needing life insurance?

    4- Not investing in the right vehicles. Well in Canada we have segregated funds. They are essentially an insurance policy that works somewhat the same as mutual funds and can be passed over to any beneficiary tax free at your death. Ironically enough, those grow better then UL or whole-life and reside outside a term policy... and you’re also guaranteed 75% (sometimes 100%) of the money you’ve invested in it. So if you were to die, your beneficiary would get both the life insurance policy and the segregated fund.

    5- Lock in the premium amount: in Canada most UL policies sold are Yearly Renewable Term... the premium increases every year and gradually deplete your savings. As that happens, the client has 2 choices: Pay more every year or go into a loan which decreases the death benefit and jeopardizes the viability of the policy.

    6- Lock in the face amount: That's exactly why one should really shop around before purchasing a whole life policy. Most whole-life policies work this way: as your saving in the policy go up, the face amount doesn't change. So if you have a $100,000 policy and $50,000 in the savings, the death benefit will be reduced to $50,000 and when they return your savings, you get $100,000. Why pay the same premium for a decreasing benefit policy?

    7- Other companies offer better saving products. How? PFS philosophy and products ensure that clients get to a point where they don't need the insurance anymore. If other companies have better saving vehicles, why would clients need a permanent policy?

  255. LSM Insurance 12/13/2010 at 9:45 am

    Just a few quick points

    1. The key with insurance planning is to look at the whole picture and not just one component. If a Term policy is needed choose the plan which offers the best value

    2. We're aware of no stats that more YRT UL policies are in Canada than level Cost of Insurance UL policies

    3. On the Investment front the same principle holds true. Why not work with an investment advisor who has a full basket of solutions.

  256. Phil 12/13/2010 at 10:45 am

    You're right about 1. If after looking at the whole picture a permanent policy is needed, then yes, go ahead and get one. More often then not, for most people except the extremely weathly, those types of policies are not needed.

    Point 2: I saw a statistic to that effect on the internet a few week ago. Unfortunately, I don't have the link handy.

    Point 3: Because most financial advisors don't understand how money grows. If you are investing to create growth over the long term (RRSPs) then you need to get a fund with a history of high performance (10+ years) and leave it there for years without moving it. Most advisors apply a short term market timing strategies (move your money around from fund to fund much like you'd buy and sell stocks) to long term horizon. This prevents growth but, ironically enough, generates high commissions to the advisor. Having more options doesn't mean that it's always best for the client.

    That's exactly what Primerica Common Sense does. Plus, as you get older, the fund automatically rebalances itself to include less stocks and more bonds... This makes the fund less volatile without you having to move your money around.

  257. LSM Insurance 12/13/2010 at 12:39 pm

    As mentioned the reasons for getting a Permanent policy are in multiple posts.

    It would be great if you could share any evidence that more YRT ULs are sold than level costs ULs. Not that it should be a variable but the commissions rates are essentially the same.

    As for fund rebalancing - we specialize on life and living benefit solutions but many fund families offer a rebalancing feature.

  258. Observer 12/14/2010 at 11:20 pm

    Statements like this "Point 3: Because most financial advisors don’t understand how money grows."

    Is what really made the agents who left really feel like they were played for fools. It's not so much the products because basically it comes down to sales. It was the issues of opening up our minds and finding out we didn't know what we didn't know be it products or about how the industry works.

    Do people really think the world of finance is as simplistic as PFS makes it out to be? They try to keep it simple for their target market and for hiring the masses. Step back for a moment and consider all of the people who have gone through ALW/PFS through out the years. They should have at least a million agents sales force going...There should be many financially independent people on TV, radio and the internet singing the praises of PFS.. What happened?

    Sales is sales and business is business but that kool-aid is strong. At least for the moment..SMH..

    Point 3: "Because most financial advisors don’t understand how money grows." Is a very bold statement.

  259. Phil 12/15/2010 at 10:17 am

    Interesting point of view. You're right, the industry does have best practices that are well established. Unfortunatelly, those are not the same "best practices" that all independant financial experts advise people to follow.

    Most people follow what the industry tells them to. I guess to see who's right we'd have to look at how seniors retire these days. If most of them are able to retire without any financial concerns, then I'd be willing to acknowledge that the industry has done it's job.

    As to how many people have gone through PFS, that's really irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant to look at how many insurance agents left big companies like Sun Life, Great West Life or various insurance groups like World Financial Group over the years.

    Really, I don't see alot of independent (that's the key operative word missing from your statement) praising other companies either.

  260. Bob 12/19/2010 at 1:48 am

    I was looking for different discussions about Primerica. I was looking for: Reasons NOT to join Primerica. Is there, somewhere discussions like that??? I am ready to share my experience how they waste my two years.

  261. Observer 12/20/2010 at 2:05 pm

    Bob let me say in my opinion there are more reasons not to stay at Primerica than not to join. But that's a personal individual decision. Primerica is not a bad company or a scam but in my opinion an person can do much better outside of PFS be it product offering and/or contract.

    That being said for the ambitious person the license(s) they can get with Primerica are very valuable especially in the employment arena people are dealing with today. Of course my perspective is from the market in the US so there's always the consideration that I have no clue what I'm talking about.

    Please share your experience. One more thing. Something many of us who have left PFS has come to know that it wasn't PFS who wasted many of our years it was us because we drank the kool-aid and took their (RVP) word about products and the market. We found out we just didn't know what we didn't know.

    If you really want some examples do some research on compensation of products outside of PFS such as investments, LTC and PLPP. Consider the potential renewal income. Then look at the difference in products, compensation and contract by going directly with PPL directly. At PPL they get ownership after being an associate for 12 months and the business can be willed to a family member or whomever.

  262. God Bless Primerica 12/20/2010 at 4:51 pm

    In response to Bob's comment; there is a plethora of reasons why NOT to join primerica. I will however give you some excellent reasons WHY TO JOIN. If you are looking for a vehicle that will allow you to build a business, gain invaluable experience and wisedom running your own business, and make some good money on your own terms (YOU DON'T HAVE TO QUIT YOUR JOB). Ultimately the opportunity is just that, an opportunity. No one in Primerica is promising you "Something for Nothing". If you WANT the OPPORTUNITY to free yourself from up under your employer's thumb, Primerica offers it. If the OPPORTUNITY is not for you, or you just don't WANT that opportunity, then you don't have to take it. But if you do take, it will not be a cake walk. You will have to BUILD, just like Steve Jobbs, Donald Trump, Oprah, Bill Gates, and all the other BUSINESS OWNERS in this world have done.

  263. Observer 12/21/2010 at 3:33 pm

    On your own terms= Has not read the IBA.

  264. Bob 12/21/2010 at 10:39 pm

    RE: Reasons NOT to join Primerica.
    Well, to be honest, I am not sure where to start. The most important is the fact, that it is impossible to express my fillings in 100% by writing this article. I joined Primerica almost 20 years ago. I know, that most of you will say: Oh, that was so long time ago,… now Primerica is different,… No!! I don’t think so. The concept is the same and the only what changed is for worst. When I was with Primerica, you required having only 2 guys under you at 70% plus specific production, and I do believe it was at least $10,000 persistently for 3 months to qualify for RVP. I know, later Primerica did some changes which was more difficult to become RVP. The reason I am talking about this is because I had 2 guys at 70% and on top of that I had 2 guys at 50%. Of course I am talking about having them directly under me. I was the one who hired them, trained them and helped them to hire new guys for them. I had about 50 people under me in total, so only what I need is to do required production. At this moment, my “boss” who I was direct to, approached me with shocking idea. He placed his best friend between me and him. His friend was at 30% at that time and now I am no longer direct to my “boss” but to someone who is very short time with Primerica and had not even 1 recruit. Well, now, just in a few seconds he received close to 50 people. That was very disgusting !!! It was only a matter of days or week to do something so I will be gone and all of my work (my people) would go directly to that 30% guy. Of course at that moment he would qualify to become RVP (broker) almost immediately. So I QUIT!! Yes, I quit and many guys who where under me quit as well. Later more people follow until he had nobody. Yes, all of them quit!! The funniest thing is, that guy who was placed between me and my “boss”, also quit Primerica and went to competition. I am not sure where, but my “boss” was upset big time!! Guys, for many of you Primerica are like a religion. You fill like crusaders, who are helping people with purchasing term insurance and investing the difference. Okay, be that way, but remember one thing please: This is NOT a business!! This is only source of income, that’s all. I was a witness of many RVP’s fired and not always because they did something wrong in regards to legal actions. I was dedicated Primerica insurance agent who sold his house and brand new car in order to get rid of the mortgage and the car loan payment. I was recruiting many people and attending to all meetings and seminars and all of this for nothing!! And please keep in mind; at that time (legally) it was no part-time opportunities, so I had to quit my job as well. I didn’t mention any names in this article, because I don’t like to end up in the court house, yes in the court house like my “boss” was already threatening me back then. I guess, I could talk about this event back then with someone important from Primerica, but after calling .... . and never receiving his call back, I let it go. Oh, one more thing; sooner or later you will purchase Primerica product like I was pushed to do so, and Mutual Funds are not really working like you are told they are (in reality). I invested large lump sum back then, and last year, because of the recession I had to withdraw all of my money with very small interest. I wish all of you guys good luck and Marry X-mas.
    Regards,
    Bob

  265. Phil 12/22/2010 at 10:23 am

    Bob,

    How exactly is it Primerica's fault for wasting your two years when you're self-employed?

    I'm sorry but aside from the fact that Primerica is based on you building a distribution business and brokers/captive insurance agencies are based on you building a client base, there's NO other difference in term of what is expected of you between being employed or self-employed by Primerica or another agency.

    Observer,

    Yes, if you are looking to generate a high short-term income, working for a brokerage or another insurance/investment company might be better for an individual. However, if you are looking at building a business and becoming financially independent by generating passive income, then Primerica would be the better option.

  266. Bob 12/22/2010 at 1:44 pm

    Please don’t be ridiculous!! You are on commission with very heavy contract. You still must follow the rules, and whatever they tell you, you MUST do it. Business? Do you have any idea what is the difference between business and working for someone? Well, let me tell you the most important things. When you have a business, it is up to you when you will come to work and what time. It is up to you to take vacations whenever you like instead someone tell you to go for seminar and do the speech. It is up to you to hire and fire whoever you like, not up to your recruits who can bring on board someone you will never hire. And that recruit may be still on training without licence and when he quit, that another person will stay and now you have to deal with someone unwonted. It is up to you to decide what to sell and what kind of new product introduce to your business. You can deal with vendors you like and have your office/shop where you decide to. And so on, and so on,… The only difference between real business and yours is that you can ACCIDENTLY become RVP, even if you are completely dumb without any experience and school. Yes, accidently!! Someone can bring you on board and you accidently will bring 4 or 5 guys who later will become very successful. Guess what? In the future, you are the hero and everyone is looking at you as a leader without knowing how dumb you are.

    Regards,
    Bob

  267. Phil 12/22/2010 at 9:08 pm

    I'm sorry Bob but you appear to be disgruntal because you never made it up to RVP. From what I've been told, your promotion at Primerica is based on your production and that of your team.

    Unless my information is wrong, the fact that your RVP introduced someone between you and him would not negatively affect your promotion if you ran the numbers. Sure, it's good for that guy and it's totally unfair given that you build yourself a team, but I'm not clear as to how it it adversaly affects you in being promoted.

    Have you thought about going transfering to another RVP in your area that was more professional than the guy you were under?

  268. Observer 12/23/2010 at 3:13 am

    A person in the know can become financially independent by generating high short term income/personal production. Have you not been educate about investments? Think outside the box.

    When you are denied renewals or denied access to products which may be of potential benefit to your clients you are having your potential future income restricted. Let me ask this. If you as PFS agent leaves the company what can they take with them after all the work they have done?

    PFS isn't a scam or bad company just know your rights going in and coming out because if you ever leave they will inform you of your contractual obligations. While many have a personal and emotional bond with the company for them it's just business.

  269. Phil 12/23/2010 at 6:51 pm

    What can someone take with them when they leave a company? Generally, nothing. I used to have a financial advisor who moved from one company to another. When he moved, he tried to get me to move my money and insurance on the basis that he was now offering better products. I didn't move on the basis that the products I had suited me fine and I didn't see the need to change to give him a new commission.

  270. LSM Insurance 12/23/2010 at 8:31 pm

    Most independent brokers own their book of business. This is a benefit to the broker and the client should the broker decide to switch firms.

  271. Bob 12/23/2010 at 9:17 pm

    Phil, I can see you did read my post very quickly and you didn’t understand what I wrote. Again, but very short: In regards to rules, at that time when I was with Primerica, to qualify for RVP, you needed at least 2 guys at 70% and specific production constantly for 3 months.
    I had 2 guys at 70% direct under me and 2 guys at 50% direct as well. Phil, that was at the moment when I quit. Now, try to understand: before that I had only 1 guy at 70% and 3 guys at 50%. One of them got promoted to 70% and right away my “boss” placed his friend between us. I knew I am not going to survive 3 months to do that required production. I knew, the “boss” will do something to kick me out and all of my team will automatically receive his friend. Do you understand now? As I wrote in my first post, I was a witness of a lot of strange things happened, even RVP’s was fired and who knows for what reason. Three months is a long time, and a lot of ugly things could happen to get rid of me.
    Phil, in regards to be transferred to another RVP… Yes, I did that. First of all, I had to wait 6 months to do so. After 6 months, when I went to another office, it was very hard to hire anybody – my market was already used and doing this as a full time job (legally at that time) was not enough income to support my family. I had no choice, but to quit again and find a normal job.
    Phil, for a lot of guys, Primerica or any MLM is a great way to go to change your live, but you have to watch for who you are working for. You have to be very careful, so you don’t waste your time like I did. Over two years I was dedicated to Primerica, I was working very hard and in 1 day, everything went to the garbage!!!

    Regards,
    Bob

  272. Phil 12/23/2010 at 10:02 pm

    OK but why is it a benefit to the client if the Broker changes firm and asks the client to cancel his insurance policy only to purchase a new one at higher rates?

  273. Observer 12/24/2010 at 5:10 am

    Phil look at it from a business stand point. You sell, recruit and train but leave with nothing. As a whole who does the contract benefit you or the company? When an agent leaves PFS do they still request all agent personally paid for marketing materials returned? LOL..

    Hey as I say it's Ok as long as you know it. Read the IBA and know your rights going in and coming out.

  274. LSM Insurance 12/24/2010 at 10:55 am

    Agreed that would not benenfit the client. But an independent broker who owns his/her book of business would have no extra incetive to this as the since he/she remains the same client relationship. The client relationship belongs to the broker and not the firm.

  275. Phil 12/24/2010 at 2:20 pm

    Observer,

    My point exactly, look at it from a business perspective: You work a year or two to build up a brokerage (RVP). Then you work another year or two to promote a few RVPs. Then you can sit at home and be semi-retired while collecting an income and only work a few hours a week. That's if you build your Primerica business on recruitment and keep your licenses active for the rest of your life.
    Ultimately, you have three main types of successful Primerica agents:
    1- The full-time people who work at building a business based on recruitment (those reach RVP fast and succeed at creating a lot of passive income within a few years);

    2- The part-time people who work to supplement their income (those will only reach RVP if they decide to really wrap their head around recruitment);

    3- The full-time people who base their business on sales (those will only survive if they focus on investments - just like insurance agents out of Primerica will only survive if they focus on selling permanent products). However, they won't create a passive income stream quickly. It will take them many years.

  276. observer 12/25/2010 at 4:07 pm

    Ok Phil I agree but then there's the agent agreement and compensation. If you build it they own it. Agents try to promote products and service but the meat is in the system.

    I don't really know about Canada but outside of PFS there are other opportunities that allow more products and better compensation.

    Do an open minded comparison between the compensation and contract between marketing your legal plan through PFS and going directly with Pre-Paid legal. Both of those product lines are available in the US and Canada.

    Today many agents sell term along with other products outside of PFS. Just because your RVP tells you something doesn't make it true. that's the way I used to think until I did an open minded research on carriers and the industry. It's in their best interest to lead people in a way of thinking. It's business.

    Ask yourself this. Why does PFS offer a MET product? Do they not offer a permanent products? Why is it Ok to shop personal lines and not life products? Hmmmmmmmm

    Just as another point. Products such as LTC and disability do pay renewals. When I was at PFS there were things I didn't know that I didn't know.

  277. Xprimerican 12/25/2010 at 4:26 pm

    Phil,

    I can see some valid points you are making, but the truth is Primerica chooses to offer mediocre products. The reason is very simple. The system allows them to recruit someone, sell the recruit products, sell the recruits warm market products, then repeat the cycle. This is why (here in the US) Primerica doesn't even care to guarantee their premium over 20yrs. So those reps are selling expensive term to their family & friends (when they could go out and get 2 or 3 times the coverage for the same premium dollar) and going unchecked because Uncle Bob would never believe his little nephew would sell him crap.

    As for the business let me ask you a very straight forward question. Do you have ownership in Primerica? Do you own your own solution number? See everything you are saying sounds great, but are you speaking from experience or are you merely repeating what you have been told at countless "trainings".

    The truth is I was making a very nice residual income while in Primerica. Nice enough that I was able to focus on recruiting and not worry about selling products. It was very nice & making nearly $100k doing nothing was awesome. In the end it all came down to my integrity. I am the type of person who wants to offer the best options to my client and Primerica is NEVER the best option for the client. As soon as I realized this I resigned and went independent & built my own agency. (Structured similar to Primerica.) What fascinates me about PFS reps (myself included when I was in) is how loyal they are to the company. In the end the company is peddling mediocre products off of the relationships of their recruits. Seriously Primerica could step up to the plate and provide the most competitive products in the US, but they wont. The reason is simple..... money! It's sad, but Primerica is nothing like the model Art developed. It's funny how back then Art focused on providing the most competitive product & take care of the sales force. Neither is being done in the modern Primerica.

  278. I 12/26/2010 at 9:57 am

    Just food for thought. The attached is from Wikipedia.

    "Primerica's licensed agents who are licensed in life insurance earned an average of $5,156 in compensation during 2009, or an average of $429.67 each month not accounting for taxes. The income level that an agent achieves varies based upon the licenses obtained, "contract level" at which the agent receives commissions and the amount of personal production and commission-based businesses written in the field as well as the size and activity of an agent's organization. This is also dependent on whether the agent is an RVP and is also licensed in securities, debt, and other financial parts of the company."

  279. James 01/03/2011 at 10:22 pm

    I've joined Primerica 4 months ago in Canada as a part time job. I am now a senior rep fully licensed in life insurance AND mutual funds. I'm really looking forward to 2011 so that I can quit my current full time job and do this full time.

    I remember reading this web site shortly after I joined the business. I would like to put my 2 cents like everyone else.

    As for buying life insurance from Primerica or other companies, I can't only speak from my life experience. This is what it is.

    1. I was over life insured with 1 million dollar benefits when I needed 625 000$. Since this is only term, I prepared an investment program to be self insured by the time I retire. That's why it's term.

    2. I had disability insurance when I was an independent contractor. Then I moved to a full time job with benefits and forgot about it. Joining Primerica made me realize that I spent 2000$ for no reason since I now have it at work, so I canceled it and save monthly payments.

    3. I knew nothing about getting out of debt. It seems that they never went away although I had 6 digits family income. Primerica educated me about how to be out of debt, and stayed out of it.

    4. I had no retirement investment what so ever. Primerica showed me how I can retire with 1.4 million dollar when I'll be 60.

    5. I have an investment for my daughter's education, but not enough. Primerica showed me the numbers to make this work.

    6. I didn't have a Will. Got pre-paid legal and got one with the subscription.

    7. I got the debt watcher program they have to check my score rating. I had a 11K credit card that I canceled in 2006 that was still opened. That was seriously not helping my liabilities so I called them to have it closed.

    ... So that's the client side. As you can see, Primerica fits perfectly into my life.

    As for the business side, my RVP is really nice to me. I spent Christmas to his place with other reps and we had a great time. He really believes we can make it, and really motivates the hell out of us. My peers are good human beings, and love being with them. I believe their Network Marketing works, and it will work for me as well.

    Here's what I will do. I will get back into this forum every time I move up with the company, and let you know how it goes.

    Until then, believe in yourself and you can achieve anything you want.

    Good Bless...

  280. Phil 01/04/2011 at 1:59 pm

    XPrimerican,

    I can't comment on what Primerica offers in the USA because I'm Canadian. In Canada, Primerica insurance is by far a better product for a family and it is very competitive in price(and even cheaper than most insurers posted on this site - even if PFS bundles it's riders in the policy).

    If you don't believe me, get a quote from your broker and then contact a Primerica Rep.

  281. Observer 01/04/2011 at 2:12 pm

    James here's just a couple of thoughts. If your going to go full-time at some point it might be a good idea to reconsider the dropping of the disability policy. I don't fully know the rules for companies in Canada but it's very different going through underwriting for self-employed and an employee.

    Next consider looking at getting the legal plan directly from Pre-Paid legal rather than from Primerica unless you have total loyalty to Primerica rather than doing what's in the best interest of your family. Something also to consider is for the price of one PFS legal plan you just might be able to add the Pre-paid legal Identity Theft Plan which could help you free up a bit more money to invest.

    How in the world can anyone convince you that you were over insured? Are you married with kids? Did they also add the increasing benefit ride to your policy? Think about it for a moment. God forbid if something happened to you today which check would you rather be given to your beneficiary? The other check or the P. Life check? Now to go another step. What would happen to your business?

    So you see your ties with PFS would end per contract at your current level but your beneficiary would get less of a death benefit.

  282. LSM Insurance 01/04/2011 at 3:56 pm

    Phil - regarding your point about Primerica having lower rates than most of the companies posted via our instant quote software.

    Agreed there are large discreptencies among carriers in many instances. That's the advantage of working with an independent broker he/she can find the insured the best plan at the best price without a bias towards any paticular company.

  283. Rosey 10/05/2012 at 8:32 am

    Do the Return of Premium plam give you all your money back - how can the insurance co. do this and still make money. There must be a catch

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